Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to Senator Vanstone, the Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs. Does the minister stand by her comments last week that the government is allowing skilled guest workers into the country in order to keep wages down? Has the minister finally been honest in admitting that the Howard government is allowing more skilled guest workers into the country in order to undermine the working conditions of Australians? Don’t the minister’s comments send a clear message to employers: do not train local staff; simply bring in skilled guest workers who can be employed on minimum wages under the government’s extreme industrial relations laws? Doesn’t the minister’s admission make it clear that the increasing use of guest workers is not about meeting a short-term skills shortage but is really about opening up a cheap source of labour for employers?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Wong for her question. Senator, I certainly do not believe that I used the words that you used. I think you are paraphrasing, and you might be good enough to admit that. You might also indicate that what you are referring to is an article in the Australian Financial Review and possibly the West Australian

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Age.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

and maybe the Age as well—where the proposition was put to me that an employer in Western Australia wanted to make sure that he was not engaged in some sort of upward wages spiral. What you do not mention, Senator, is that in the same article the union representative clearly indicated that he believed 457 workers were being used to—and I could be paraphrasing, but it is pretty close to the words he used—prevent the unions ‘exploiting a skills shortage’. So we have some differences of opinion here, Senator Wong.

Equally, Senator Wong in her question says to all of Australia, or such of it that is listening to this broadcast when it goes to air or reads Senate Hansard, that Australia now allows guest workers to come in on minimum wages. In fact, that is not true. I believe Senator Wong would understand that. The requirements of coming in on a 457 visa are that either the Australian award is paid or the minimum salary level, whichever is the higher. In fact, the average for these workers at the moment is about $60,000. It is true that the minimum salary level at the moment is around $41,000, but it is also true that the average is around $60,000—hardly what you would regard as guest workers coming in to work on minimum wages.

What I have said is that, obviously, when people can come in and work under these conditions it does ensure that there is another pool of labour that employers can rely on, but I do not believe—and I do not think that most employers believe—that these visas are used in the manner described by Senator Wong, that is, to drive wages down. But I do believe that they may be used to stop the union movement doing as the union advocate suggested that they wanted to do, namely—in semi inverted commas because I am not sure this is a direct quote—‘exploit a skills shortage’.

For those who have had any experience of recessions or the good times in Australia, this government, even after 10 years of growth and with the lowest unemployment in 30 years, are still not making the boast that Mr Keating made, ‘This is as good as it gets,’ because if Australia sticks with us it will get better. Senator Wong, your party is silly enough to say it was as good as it gets. We do not believe that; nonetheless, we also do not believe that the good times should be brought to an end by an upward wages spiral.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister confirm that, when she stated that the guest workers should get a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work, she was in fact referring only to the minimum wage under the government’s industrial relations laws and not to relevant certified agreements applying at the workplace? Isn’t the minister’s admission that this use of guest workers is to prevent employees from seeking better wages and conditions simply an indication that the Howard government’s guest worker program is not about dealing with the skills shortage, which has occurred on the Howard government’s watch, but is about ensuring employers have access to cheap sources of labour?

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will make a couple of points. An average salary of $60,000 indicates that there are certainly many people with salaries above that, which is hardly what you would regard as a cheap source of labour. The largest user of this visa is the New South Wales department of health—hardly known to be a right-wing cabal of people seeking to undermine Australian workers. It is used by Saint Vincent de Paul, Red Cross and the universities. Senator, I am afraid that you and I come to this from a completely different perspective.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Corporate Governance and Responsibility) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

They can employ them on lower wages and conditions.

Amanda Vanstone (SA, Liberal Party, Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are, in fact, the limits that I have already indicated numerous times in this place and, Senator, I do understand that there are some people who want to exploit a skills shortage. In some areas only there are skills shortages. And Senator Wong invites me to remind the chamber that the last time there was a big cut in skills funding was under the Labor government at a time when I think Mr Beazley was the training minister when funding for new commencements went to one of the lowest levels it has ever been. (Time expired)