Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Chris Evans. Will the minister advise the Senate exactly how many Australian families will be worse off under the government’s ETS, the great big new tax on everything?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am not sure why the Liberal senators will not ask Senator Wong questions about this—probably because she beats them up so badly. It is my great pleasure to answer the question. I note again that Senator Birmingham has amnesia, like all Liberal members who forget that they went to the last election supporting an ETS, arguing for an ETS and promising the Australian people that they would deliver it. Even a conservative like John Howard recognised the impact of climate change and he went to the election. Senator Birmingham and the rest of the Liberal opposition promised the Australian people that you would support an ETS. You also indicated when we first introduced this legislation that you would be supporting it. Up until a month or two ago you were supporting it, but now apparently it will result in the end of the world as we know it. Of course that is nonsense.

We have undertaken to fully compensate Australian families for the costs of our ETS and 92 per cent of the families will receive full compensation and working families in Australia will have those costs met. That is in sharp contrast to yesterday’s con, yesterday’s stunt, by Mr Abbott in which he suddenly announced that $11 billion over 10 years would magically arrive and would be paid for under the ‘forces of greed’. According to the finance spokesman, polluters will get access to $11 billion of whose money? Taxpayers’ money. So do not talk to me about a tax! The $11 billion of taxpayers’ money will allow people through their ‘actions of greed’, as you describe it—what a disgrace!—

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I dare say it will not surprise you that my point of order relates to sessional orders requiring the minister to be directly relevant to the question asked.

Government Senators:

Government senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence we will proceed.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The question to the minister asked exactly how many Australian families will be worse off. There was no request for him to comment on all sorts of extraneous matters. I invite you—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Like your policy? Your policy is an extraneous matter?

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And the Leader of the Government in the Senate has just interjected to make my point—’on our policies’. He is quite right. The question did not relate in any way, shape or form for commentary on our policy—

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You’re sensitive about your policy.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No. If he wants to answer a question about our policy, he can arrange a dorothy dixer from his own side, but when we ask him a question the sessional orders in fact demand that he be directly relevant.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! When there is silence we will proceed. It is as simple as that.

Joe Ludwig (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Manager of Government Business in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, on the point of order: there is no point of order. The minister has been directly answering the question. Those opposite may not like the answer to the question, but it is an abuse of process to stand up and object on the basis that they do not particularly like the answer. The minister has been directly relevant to the question. He has been dealing with the question and the policy of this government on climate change—unlike those opposite.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The minister has 12 seconds remaining if there is anything further that needs to be added in answering the question. I draw the minister’s attention to the question.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The Rudd Labor government’s plan compensates families. The Abbott plan says that greedy polluters will take $11 billion of taxpayers’ money under that policy. It is a disgrace.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer the minister to comments by the Treasurer on Sky News last November in which he said, ‘We can’t guarantee that no-one will be worse off under the ETS.’ How can the Labor government claim to have an effective compensation package if they do not know or will not even say exactly how many Australian families will be worse off?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I welcome the supplementary question because what has become clear in the last day or so is that the Liberal Party have no capacity under their plan to protect Australian taxpayers from meeting $11 billion worth of costs, which they say they are going to pay to big polluters and will be driven by the polluters’ greed. What we have done is fully costed our ETS. We have costed what the impact will be on taxpayers, on working families, and we have provided a compensation package. There is no compensation package under Mr Abbott’s plan. There is an admission that $11 billion of taxpayers’ money will be expended—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The time for debating this is post question time. The minister is entitled to be heard in silence.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, taxpayers understand that when an opposition party promises to spend $11 billion of taxpayers’ money it has got to come from somewhere. Your finance spokesman was not able to explain where it came from, but taxpayers know: $11 billion out of their taxes. (Time expired)

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Murray Darling Basin) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I ask the minister: isn’t it true that, even on the government’s own flawed figures, half of all middle-income Australian families will be worse off under the Rudd government’s ETS? Is the Labor government simply hiding its estimates and modelling to stop Australian families from knowing how many will be worse off under this big new tax or is it that it simply does not know?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As the senator knows, our plan was costed by Treasury. The compensation package was costed. It has all been out on the public record for months and months. We have debated this twice in this parliament. On two occasions it was your intention to vote for it. Now you have joined the climate deniers, Senator Birmingham. The Liberal Party is no longer; it is back to being the conservative party. The deniers like Senator Minchin are in charge, Mr Abbott describes climate change as ‘crap’, and now you pretend you have got a policy to deal with it. The Australian taxpayers know you are going to spend $11 billion of their money, with no compensation.

John Hogg (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Evans, your remarks should be addressed to the chair and not across the chamber to individual senators.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Mr President. It is the case that this government provides compensation to Australian families for the cost of the scheme. The Liberal Party policy makes it clear that the big polluters will not pay. There will be no cap on emissions. The big polluters will get access to $11 billion of taxpayers’ money, with no compensation. You have no credibility. (Time expired)