John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Evans. I refer the minister to an interview on The 7.30 Report on 8 June with an asylum seeker in Indonesia who said in broken English:

Maybe Labor Party will win. They are accepted asylum seekers. I know about it … The Labor Party will win election. God willing, they will win election because we are prey for Labor Party.

Would the minister agree that the Rudd government’s policies have created the perception that Australia now has an open-door policy on boat arrivals?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No, I reject that entirely. We are dealing with an increase in activity from asylum seekers departing by boat from both Indonesia and Sri Lanka. Both of those movements are largely driven by the dislocation and the internal strife in both Sri Lanka and Afghanistan. The largest refugee-producing country in the world at the moment is Afghanistan. Their people are seeking refuge all round the world. We are getting, I think, in the order of 1½ to two per cent of those seeking refuge.

George Brandis (Queensland, Liberal Party, Shadow Attorney-General) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

We used to not get any under the Howard government.

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Brandis, you keep saying that but it is actually not true. Repeating an untruth may make you feel comfortable but the reality is that that is not true. The number of boats steadily increased during last years of the Howard government.

The point I make is that Indonesia is a transit country that has been utilised by a lot of people seeking asylum in Australia and elsewhere. We are working very closely with Indonesian authorities. We are getting very good cooperation from Indonesian police. There have been a large number of disruptions and a large number of arrests. The Indonesian government have now committed to making people smuggling a criminal offence. That legislation is vital to the fight against people smugglers. At the moment it is very hard for Indonesian authorities to hold people smugglers because there is no specific people-smuggling charge.

We expect that legislation to be a huge boon for us in the fight against people smuggling in Indonesia. As I say, we are getting good cooperation. There have been a lot of disruptions. There is one man currently on trial in Australia who was extradited and another is about to be extradited. So we are working closely with them to combat this problem. (Time expired)

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Is the minister aware of a comment made by another asylum seeker as reported in ABC News Online? The asylum seeker, again in broken English, said:

Kevin Rudd—he’s changed everything about refugee. If I go to Australia now, different, different … Maybe accepted but when John Howard, president, Australia, he said come back to Indonesia.

Would the minister agree that the government’s polices are a significant factor in the sales pitch of people smugglers?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the basis of the assertion of Senator Williams one would have to maintain that Great Britain, the United States, Canada, Norway, Sweden, Germany and France are all weak in combating people smuggling because they all receive tens of thousands of persons seeking asylum. We receive a small proportion of the total persons seeking asylum around the world every year.

People seek asylum not because of what is occurring in destination countries but because of what is occurring in their own countries. They are the people who seek asylum. When they come to Australia they get assessed against the refugee convention. If they are refugees, they are provided protection; if they are not, they are returned home. We have very rigorous systems which make those decisions. Those who are owed protection are given it. (Time expired)

John Williams (NSW, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. With 6,496 unauthorised arrivals and 139 boats since the Rudd government weakened Australia’s borders, how much more evidence does this government require that its policies, and not push factors, have spurred on this dangerous and unregulated trade in human misery?

Chris Evans (WA, Australian Labor Party, Leader of the Government in the Senate) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The logic of the assertion by Senator Williams is that the Howard government was weak on border security because in 1999 it had 3,700 people arrive, in 2000 it had 2,900 people arrive and in 2001 it had 5,516 people arrive. The logic of the assertion is that if you have people arrive then you are weak on border security. So not only was the Howard government weak on border security but Great Britain is weak on border security, Canada is weak on border security, the United States is weak on border security, France is weak on border security and Italy is weak on border security.

It is a nonsense. It is an argument put forward by the opposition for what they see as political advantage. But they know that the reality of the irregular movement of people around the world is an international problem that is driven by source countries and the internal strife in those countries. That is the problem we have to work with our neighbours to combat. We are doing so. As with all of our neighbours, we are very committed to that. (Time expired).