Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for Immigration) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research (Senator Carr) to questions without notice asked by Senators Ronaldson and Cash today relating to asylum seekers and the Malaysian agreement.

Minister Carr set a new low today when he answered these questions in question time. For Minister Carr to come into this chamber and accuse the opposition of not respecting the human rights of asylum seekers when it comes to our policies is an act of absolute hypocrisy. Who can forget what the former Leader of the Opposition, Kevin Rudd, said in November 2007 in relation to turning back the boats? I quote this as to what Kevin Rudd said:

Kevin Rudd has taken a tough line on border security, warning that a Labor government will turn the boats back ...

That was what your policy was going to be prior to the election: you were going to turn the boats back. So to come in here and accuse us on this side of the chamber of not respecting the rights of asylum seekers is an absolute disgrace. But what is even worse is to say that this side's policies were responsi­ble for the deaths of asylum seekers coming here, because we all know what the Prime Minister told caucus on Monday, don't we? We all know that the Prime Minister told the Labor Party caucus that four per cent of people coming to this country by boat drown. Do you know what that means? It means that under the current government's policies, on their watch, approximately 440 people have possibly drowned in trying to come to Australia. So don't you ever come into this place and try to tell us that when it comes to our policies we do not respect the human rights of others, because based on that statistic, which your own Prime Minister in caucus told you about, you are an absolute disgrace.

But it does not stop there, does it? The government is still committed to the Malay­sian solution. The government is still comm­itted to a solution which the other place found so abhorrent that they passed a motion condemning the government's legislation in this regard. Why did they do that? They did that for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the House of Representatives—the other place—knows that, under the Malay­sian deal, for the people that we send to Malaysia there is a very good chance that they will be caned. Why is that? We heard it from the minister himself today. The agree­ment that has been drawn up between the government of Australia and the Malaysian government is not legally binding, so it does not matter what the minister comes into this place and says in relation to guarantees by the Gillard government that asylum seekers that we send to Malaysia will not be caned. They have no legal basis at all for making that claim, because the agreement that they have entered into is a non-binding agree­ment. On top of that, section 6(3) of the Malaysian Immigration Act actually gives Malaysians the right to cane and flog—put it any way you like, I can tell you right now it is not very nice—asylum seekers who enter their country. You cannot say that that is not true because statistics themselves do not lie. I say to the Left of the Labor Party: you must be very, very proud of the policies that your government is entering into. Sixteen people a day, sixteen refugees a day, are flogged in Malaysia, and you come into this parliament and ask us to agree with you in condoning a policy that is in breach of our international obligations on torture and that, without a doubt, will see people that we send to Malaysia under your government policy caned. That is a disgrace.

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What an outrageous contribution, yet again, from that side. They come into this place and try to lecture us about human rights. Let us not forget what happened with 'children overboard'. I know you are very good at trying to rewrite history but the people will judge you, as they have in the past, on your history of human rights and what happened with 'children over board' and with the Tampa. Your policy is one of sink or swim. Not only are you going to turn back the boats but you want to tow them out to sea. What happens then? We on this side of the cham­ber know, as a government that is concerned about the welfare of these refugees. We are concerned about them. Those people are coming here by boat because they are desperate for a new way of life.

Of course we are supporting the Malay­sian solution. It is a test for those opposite who come into this chamber and espouse and lecture on all sorts of issues, including this one, and of what Mr Abbott is going to do. Is he actually going to put the welfare of these refugees and the Australian people above his own political advantage? We know what his position will be on that. He will never do it, because all he is about is—

Mark Furner (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Nauru.

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Nauru, Nauru, Nauru and oppose, oppose, oppose at whatever cost it may be to these people's lives. I am really quite disappointed in Senator Cash when she tries to make accusations about our record on the treatment of children. What about the children who have been locked up in detention centres? What about the Howard government's record on that in the past? So let us not try to rewrite history, as you have done time and time again. As a government, we will be bringing the legislation into the parliament, and that is when those opposite will have their opportunity to put their names on the record and vote. If they do not support the legislation to allow the processing in Malaysia or any other destination decided by the minister, then they will be judged on that.

Each and every one of us in the chamber knows that Mr Abbott has been told—he has been advised by the officials—that his preferred position of Nauru will not work; it will fail. We know that. Those on the other side know that. This is all about the oppo­sition's strategy to oppose, oppose, oppose in order to gain some political momentum to help their cause. But the reality is that the option of Nauru is too expensive—a billion dollars. It is not even ready for operation.

As I have said, when it comes to this government, the issue of refugees is a very emotional one. When men, women and children who, in most cases, get on an unseaworthy vessel in order to come to this country, we will as a government always have the overriding obligation to prevent loss of life and to ensure that we take every action possible to stop people smugglers and those who organise that trade—not the victims. We have compassion for the refugees. We have real compassion.

Senator Abetz interjecting—

I am not going to stand here and have interjections from you, Senator Abetz, when you are trying to lecture me on compassion for refugees or human rights issues. We will all be judged in history on what happens with this issue and on every other issue, including the $70 billion crater because your party has now walked away from openness and transparen­cy when it comes to budgets.

Eric Abetz (Tasmania, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What has that got to do with refugees?

Helen Polley (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It has everything to do with the credibility of the opposition. It has everything to do with the credibility of Tony Abbott and the fact that he no longer has any credibility when it comes to the issue of refugees, because he is known as Mr Flip-Flop. (Time expired)

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Before I call Senator Bernardi, could I remind senators to address their remarks through the chair and please address the members of the other house by their correct names and titles.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

In commencing my address, I must say that I do have respect for Senator Polley, but she does herself no credit by making outlandish claims in this debate. We have a very serious situation on our hands. We have thousands of people who are paying people smugglers and hopping onto leaky boats to come to Australia in order to gain residency here through what many regard as the back door. What has come to light is that an esti­mated four per cent of the people who undertake this journey die in the process. It has been denied; it has been the unspoken hideous, grotesque part of this entire process until it was let slip in the leaky Labor caucus. We know that this government has been busily saying that it has nothing to do with their processing regime; it is not pull factors. We also know that this government is incredibly discredited on this and any other item. I was horrified when Senator Carr today said the coalition's policies were resp­onsible for people dying. That is simply untrue and, whilst the minister denied saying it, I think Hansard will reflect that his choice of words or judgment was simply appalling. The difficulty is that it is not just the govern­ment in this circumstance. We have an even more insidious threat that is happy to capitalise on this human misery, and that is the party of Greens. The party of Greens do not want to have any offshore processing whatsoever. They want anyone to hop on any boat, whatever they can afford, and float over here and be released into our communi­ty irrespective of the security issues or the dangers.

This is one of the great dangers to our country—the people who sit in the wedge on my left are people who are happy to trade in human misery for their own political advant­age. There are some in the Labor Party who genuinely have an objection to offshore processing from a humanitarian perspective but they have not yet confronted the issue of all of these people dying in the attempt to get here. This government has since tried to cook up a number of solutions: a regional processing centre in East Timor and, the most recent one, the Malaysian solution.

I share their concerns. I do not want people coming to this country in a boat. I do not want them paying people smugglers to get here to claim refugee status. I make that point up-front, but it is simply wrong to tran­sfer them to Malaysia to conditions where they will be subject to punishments or where there is very little security or safety for them. To do it under the guise of some sort of humanitarian issue is simply preposterous.

I know those on that side of the chamber are looking for a political fix and there is a political fix. It is very straightforward: bring back temporary protection visas, speak to the President of Nauru and stop the boats. It is only by stopping the boats that you are going to stop people dying in attempts to come here. It is only by stopping the boats that you will stop the budget catastrophe that you are unleashing on the Australian people by having to build the great monuments to your failure—the detention centres. You probably have not been to some of these detention centres but I can tell you it is a grotesque example of how hopeless the Labor Party has been about managing this issue.

You stand with shame, all of you, because your failures are resulting in more and more people risking this perilous journey and dying in the process. You still refuse to accept that your policies have anything to do with it. If you had a shred of decency and integrity you would pick up the phone to the President of Nauru. You would bring back temporary protection visas.

Honourable Senators:

Honourable senators interjecting—

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Bernardi, address your remarks through the Chair please.

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, if they had a shred of decency and integrity they would stop this insidious trade in people. They would stop the swap of people between Malaysia and Australia. We know how they can stop it but they will not, such is the ego, the hubris, that emanates from that Labor caucus. Goodness knows why everything they touch turns to custard. Goodness knows why they are so arrogant in how they approach this. We have got a policy failure; we have an integrity failure. It is costing people's lives and billions of taxpayers' dollars and these people simply do not seem to care. It is a shame; it is a travesty; it is an indictment upon this party.

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I listened with great interest to those on the other side lecture us about how we should do business, but it is pretty simple. We are committed to offshore processing. We want to destroy the people-smuggling business. We share your empathy; we do not want people drowning at sea.

Senator Cormann interjecting—

You just need to listen for a second and learn something. Australia has the greatest humanitarian effort in the world. We do well with refugees. This is a broken system that needs fixing; we simply need to restore offshore processing. The High Court decision is a setback. You need to set aside your political motives and use some guts, some determination, and share our commitment to fix this. Australians are probably sick of the political arguments about this. They simply want it fixed. Your comments about Nauru do not hold water. Nauru is unsound policy. I think the people smugglers are well informed: send people to Australia, they go to Nauru, which is an exp­ensive stopover for us, and eventually they get resettled in New Zealand or Australia. The people smugglers sell that message—if you get to Nauru there is a 95 per cent chance of being resettled.

We want to have an orderly migration process. We want our humanitarian effort to be successful. We do not want an ineffective opposition policy costing another billion dollars and we certainly do not want your thoughts and political aspirations to obscure the fact that we need to solve this issue. You have been asked to come to the plate, to step up and have a go at solving this problem.

The agreement with Malaysia has the support of the UNHCR who believe this is an opportunity for better protection of refugees in the region. The UNHCR wants certain protections in place for transferees and so do we, but this will be a policy that is consistent with our international treaty obligations on human rights. The Labor government feels that it is doing the right thing in destroying the people-smuggling trade. This Labor policy is about putting in place a regional framework to destroy the people-smuggling trade. Step up to the plate and join us on that. The reality is that four per cent, as has been stated here today, of those who take that perilous step to pay for a passage to Australia do not make it. Mem­bers on the other side really have to join us on this and put a stop to that. You need to support our policy, get in there, put your numbers up, put your heart and political will with the Labor Party and solve this once and for all for Australians. You simply cannot keep being obstructive and throwing stones in respect of all of this. And you lecture us! What about Tampa and children overboard? There has been 10 years of debate on this subject. We need to fix it and you need to come to the party so we can get this issue resolved. As the weeks go by—

Senator Cash interjecting—

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Stephen Parry (Tasmania, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order, senators on my left!

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! Senator Gallacher is trying to get through his speech. Would you let him continue. There should be silence from the senators on both sides of the chamber.

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On this side of the chamber, we believe that this agreement with Malaysia is the only policy that will break the people-smuggling trade, that awful trade where people are making huge amounts of money by allowing people to pay for passage to Australia and risk their lives and their children's lives by putting them on boats—and not all of them make it here. As we were told in a briefing the other day, we do not even know about some of the boats that sink before they get to our waters. We need that stopped. We need the party oppo­site to come to the table, actually get stuck in and support our position to get offshore processing going. Let us get back to doing what we do best—accepting humanitarian refugees without the tragedy of asylum seek­ers getting on leaky boats and not making it.

Sean Edwards (SA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to take note of the answers given by Senator Carr to questions asked by Senator Ronaldson and Senator Cash. Indeed, this Malaysian swap deal has some very serious problems. There has been policy catch-up ever since 2007. Despite all the promises made by Kevin Rudd prior to that election, it has been policy catch-up ever since. From the outset, adequate protections were not put in place. It has been like a rabbit in the headlights. We have been jerked from East Timor to Papua New Guinea and to Manus Island.

Today, we have heard that the Malaysian agreement is not even binding, that it is only an intention and that the proper protections are in place. However, it is not legally bind­ing. So the government cannot even guar­antee that sufficient safeguards will be in place for asylum seekers that they plan to dump in Malaysia. Minister Carr evaded the question; in fact he gave a lesson in speaking without answering the question. He did not even address clause 16. Clause 16 says that it is not a legally binding agreement on the parties. This is yet another half-baked idea the Gillard government can add to its long list of policy disasters: the carbon tax, the live cattle export ban, the pink batts, cash for clunkers, GroceryWatch, school halls et cetera.

People smuggling is a business flourishing in the offshore countries because Labor is handcuffed to the Greens. Why don't you sort the policy out with the Greens whom you are handcuffed to on this issue? On this side, we have a plan, a plan that has been proven to work. In fact, the Australian people re-elected the Howard government in 2004 on the plan of managed asylum seeker migration. Why is this government wasting time and taxpayers' dollars when there is already a proven plan? We would restore temporary protection visas and the proc­essing centre on Nauru. Have some back­bone. Minister Carr said 'jellybacks'. Talk about the pot calling the kettle grimy bottom.

We need to turn those boats around when circumstances permit. Do you know what message that sends to the people who are in the business of people smuggling? The message will be very quick: they cannot bring people to this country because there is a threat that they will be towed back. It does not mean that they will be towed back; it means that they know that they will be towed back and that threat is imminent. It will destroy their business plan. They do not have any authority to say that those people will be able to get here and the wealthy asylum seekers will not be able to queue jump those people legitimately seeking to come to this country.

Nauru is a signatory to the UN convention on refugees and this will take effect later this month. Nauru will introduce domestic laws that will give support to the protections and obligations it has signed up to. Nauru is not signing up for a five-for-one swap. We must stop the boats. Nauru is not the answer on its own; it involves a range of measures that the coalition will put in place to strengthen our borders—which Labor have continued to weaken.

Do we really want to send asylum seekers to a country where almost 30,000 people were caned over a five-year period up to 2010? Do we really want to send children to a place where they will be denied access to public schools, where there is only one clinic funded by the UNHCR that is shared with 94,000 refugees and countless more asylum seekers? No. This government is a policy vacuum on managing our borders. It is cruel and over 400 have perished. If four per cent of people died every time they got onto an aeroplane every morning in this country there would be outrage. This is an outrage.

Question agreed to.