Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I inform the Senate that, at 8.30 am today, five proposals were received in accordance with standing order 75. The question of which proposal would be submitted to the Senate was determined by lot. As a result, I inform the Senate the following letter has been received from Senator Hinch:

Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:

The urgent need to protect endangered dugongs and sea turtles in Northern Australia.

Is the proposal supported?

More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—

I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.

Derryn Hinch (Victoria, Derryn Hinch's Justice Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Hinch's hunch—they're often wrong—is that this matter of public importance could get sidetracked away from the threatened existence of dugongs and sea turtles and instead focus totally on native title in principle. Let me try to clear that up in anticipation. This is not about native title. It's about taking action to try to make sure that in 50 years time Australian kids won't be saying, 'What was a dugong?' and 'What was a sea turtle?' I'm not opposed to Indigenous people going out on a canoe with a spear and killing for food. What I am against is young bucks in tinnies with powerful outboard motors chasing turtles down and killing them with machetes, flipping them on their backs to die in the hot sun or dragging them behind a fast-moving boat to drown them. Some are tied up in shallow water and kept alive, even after having their flippers cut off.

I was on Green Island recently—supposedly a marine park sanctuary. As our boat pulled in, an official voice on the PA system reminded us that we were stepping into a designated marine park. 'All flora and fauna are protected,' we were told. We were warned not to even pick up a piece of coral. The stentorian male voice should have said, 'All flora and fauna are protected, unless you are Indigenous,' because I've seen photos of Aboriginal hunters swerving amongst the swimmers on Green Island, having chased a turtle into the shallows to grab it and kill it. That's part of Indigenous culture?

How about trophy turtles, the ones that have been nursed back to health by veterinarian Jennie Gilbert at the Cairns Turtle Rehabilitation Centre and then tagged and released? These days, they try to release them 50 kilometres out at sea to protect them from the hunters. One had been nursed for 18 months. It was released and killed within 24 hours, and the tag proudly displayed by the hunters.

I had a sit-down with the Mandubarra elders, who also run a turtle rehab centre. The Mandubarra people have banned the killing of turtles and dugongs in their coastal territory. They explained to me that people from the rainforest tribes come down and kill them. In times gone by, they said, the marauding hunters from the rainforest would have been clubbed, speared or even killed for trespassing and hunting where they weren't welcome.

There's the issue prevalent too in whitefella country, and that is the lack of respect for authority—the lack of respect for their parents, the lack of respect for tribal elders from these young bucks. 'I've got my boat, I've got my outboard—let's have some fun!' That conservative conservation warrior up north, the redoubtable Colin Riddell, has campaigned for more than a decade. He's been lied to by politicians, state and federal, for about that long. He's shown me photos of young Indigenous men with a boatload of turtles. In fact, Colin Riddell first alerted me to the dugongs and their plight when I was on 3AW more than eight years ago. Riddell and Steve Irwin's father, Bob, have been champions of wildlife.

When the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Nigel Scullion—a staunch critic of us dugong do-gooders—speaks, I'm sure he'll say, 'They only hunt for food.' How does that explain the photos that I've seen of styrofoam eskies on the luggage carousel at Cairns Airport after flights from the Torres Strait Islands? I tell you, that's not chicken meat packed in ice; that's turtle meat. The scuttlebutt is, up north, that turtle sells for $70 a kilo and dugong for about $130 a kilo. I can't vouch for this to be true, but I've been told that some industrious hunters have earned up to $70,000 to $80,000 a year from this 'cultural activity'.

Everybody in and around Cairns seem to know about it—from the local TV reporters to the cab drivers, the tour boat operators and even the flight attendant on my flight to Cairns. When she found out why I was going there, she described how every school in and around Cairns went on project visits to the turtle hospital, to the rehab centres. She said that, before she joined Virgin, she flew on a regional airline and used to recoil at the pile of turtle shells that they were carrying in the cargo hold. If we can't get a ban on the hunting, can we at least, for starters, get some official head counting of how many are left and how many are being taken? Or maybe we could at least have a moratorium on turtle hunting or have a turtle-hunting season.

In my talks with the elders up in Cairns, I mentioned what the New Zealand government did with Maori support when whitebait was under threat. I know that Australians can't understand why, across the ditch, they have an obsession with whitebait. It's a bit like Australians and Vegemite. When I was growing up in New Zealand, during whitebait season the local fish shop's refrigerated window would be a carpet of silvery white fish, all the size of matchsticks. Other countries call small fish whitebait, which is not true. They're really baby sardines. In places like Canada they're called smelts. Whitebait came under threat in New Zealand because whitebait are, in fact, baby inangas that head from the sea to the rivers, and go upstream to spawn. The baby fish, on the way back to sea, are caught in the nets as they head back down to what they call runs to return to the sea.

In New Zealand, to try and save the whitebait, they shortened the whitebait season. They banned unattended nets, even though Maori had been catching whitebait for centuries. They ordered that all nets had to leave an escape space on either side to ensure that some baby whitebait made it back to sea. That concern for baby critters is echoed over turtles by Mandubarra elders that I talked to. They have a new enemy. It's not just thrill killers with outboard motors on their boats. Dune buggies and other four-wheeled vehicles are leaving deep ruts in our beaches. It means that, after the mother turtle makes it up the beach to lay her eggs—remember, turtles don't even start to breed until they are 20; and that's another reason their very existence is under threat—and her eggs hatch, the baby turtles have to scurry down the beach to the sea. Many are eaten by birds. Now, increasingly, they fall into the deep wheel marks and can't climb out the other side. This makes them even easier targets for the birds.

I want to go back to the dugongs, those amazing creatures who are cousins to the American manatee. I didn't know this, but they have more in common in their ancestry with the elephant than the dolphin. If you look closely, you can understand that. These gentle dugongs are among the most endangered creatures in our oceans today. As such, they are, rightfully, protected in Australian waters and can't be hunted, except for that exception that I mentioned earlier. The exception allows Indigenous groups to hunt them on cultural grounds under native title. The hunting and taking of these beautiful creatures, these endangered dugongs, and the turtles, are not happening on a small scale. There is no hunting season for these marine mammals, which other endangered species are afforded. It means they can be hunted at any time of the day on any day of the year. There are no controls, no rules, regulating or limiting what can or cannot be done to these creatures.

The governments admit they have no idea how many dugongs and turtles are actually being killed. Although I saw a federal report from 2000 estimating it was up to 1,600 dugongs and 20,000 turtles being killed every year, the unregulated, free-for-all hunting of these endangered creatures means there's little data on the true magnitude of the practice. The legal loophole results, as I said, in thousands of dugongs being caught, butchered and sold.

When we hear about the slaughter of whales or dolphins by the Japanese, by their fleets, the Australian public is appalled—and rightfully so. So why do we have a double standard for the slaughter of dugongs and sea turtles in our own backyard? That's why I would say tonight: not only is the killing of these creatures wrong; the way they're being killed is horrific. Hunters will chase a dugong until the target is exhausted, then they'll spear it. They'll pull the dugong in by the tail and forcefully submerge the dugong's face and drown it. This process can take up to 20 minutes before the mammal dies.

On my recent fact-finding visit to Cairns and Green Island I met a New South Wales couple who'd been going there every winter for 25 years. The wife told me that these days they rarely see a turtle and this year they did not see one dugong. The Hinch team went out on Steve Davies' glass-walled submarine, Big Cat Green Island. We saw some wonderful schools of colourful fish. I'd not been there for 50 years but I'm sure, unless my memory is playing tricks, that I saw some vibrant pink coral back then. It was very dull coral this time. I was told that bleaching has affected more than 30 per cent of the reef.

So, for the record tonight, we saw from the sub one turtle but not one dugong. I say that unless something is done about this and unless restrictions are imposed, and imposed yesterday, then in 40 or 50 years from now the dugong and the sea turtle will be extinct.

Nigel Scullion (NT, Country Liberal Party, Minister for Indigenous Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

First of all, I commend Senator Hinch for bringing on this important MPI discussion. It will be really interesting to hear from a number of people who I know are passionate about two things—people's native title right in connection with culture and the sustainable preservation of that culture. I want to make the point that there is no difference, Senator, because, in a cultural approach, the fundamental approach to take of the land is it has to be sustainable. In some circumstances, where we have new technology and all of those sorts of matters, we have the reason for this debate.

First of all, Senator Hinch started out by saying that you don't want kids of the future to say: 'What was a dugong? What was a turtle?' I know that these are the sorts of things that drive really decent people like you, Senator, and many other Australians. Let us look at the evidence around the environmental impacts of traditional hunting of these animals. We know about this from research done by the James Cook University and from some fantastic work that's been done by Helene Marsh and others. We had a bit of a hiccup in some of that data around 2014, but Helene Marsh and others acknowledged that some of the assumptions and inputs weren't quite right and now that's been changed. But it is safe to say that the overall impact of traditional hunting on turtle and dugong populations is small. The main impacts on populations are, in fact, from other areas.

One of the main areas is marine debris, particularly gillnets. Often demersal gillnets are in shallow water. When they pick themselves up they pick up a bit of coral and then they float. For the whole time they're at sea they are responsible for taking the lives of turtles. Some time ago I was a fisherman. I can remember a time when we knew we killed in trawl nets 400 or 500 turtles, which we recorded. We then introduced some turtle-excluding devices, and we now kill none. We know every single one. So through technology we've managed to ensure that those other things that happen are now reduced.

One of the big threats, of course, is in their habitat, particularly the nursing habitat. The olive ridley turtle and other turtles use the mainland of Australia around the gulf. There has been an explosion in the feral pig population. The pigs dig up the beach and eat all of the turtle eggs. We've invested some $7 million—it doesn't matter about the amount of money—in significant work to ensure that turtles have a level of protection when they lay their eggs.

It is useful to know that in communities that I know very well there is a turtle hunting season and there is a dugong hunting season. We do have a pretty well-established base of understanding. That needs to grow. I'm hoping that the Indigenous ranger program is part of that base. You can't manage what you can't measure. It is very important that we move to a higher level of amenity in that regard. We need to end up with community based management of both species and habitat, and that's about people. We have this huge investment in our marine ranger program, and that's going to expand. Quite clearly the vision of the future is community based, with the assistance of the Commonwealth ranger program, ensuring the management of the species and the habitats.

Senator, I have had the experience of hunting quite a few dugong and lots of turtle. There's a campaign on. All I can advise is that people will twist circumstances to suit their ends. The way you described it—I have heard it described in that way before myself, but I've never witnessed it, and I have been involved in the actual hunting of dugong.

This is a very important nexus we have. It is a native title right. People are currently exercising their native title right sustainably. All of the evidence says that is sustainable. From my perspective and from the government's perspective, it's important to continue to ensure that all of these issues are sustainable. That's why we're going to continue to invest in the ranger program and will do some further work. It's now emerging that we need to measure how many turtles and how many dugong are taken, the same as every other fisheries management plan, if we want to maintain sustainability.

Claire Moore (Queensland, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Minister for Women) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I strongly support the contribution that's just been made by Senator Scullion. I think you've been reading the same resources I have, Senator Scullion. Certainly, one of the things I want to do is pay my respect to the wonderful work that Helene Marsh has done through James Cook University and also the various researchers who work in that space.

Senator Hinch, one of the things that's really clear is that there has been considerable effort put in place over many years by people who care very, very deeply for these wonderful animals: the dugong and the turtle. There are different groups of turtles—there's not just one type—but the dugong is pretty special. It's probably one of the most precious and unusual animals you could find. I don't think anyone can truly describe a dugong. Through the work at James Cook and also through the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, there has been consideration of the various issues around the importance of having an effective balance between protecting these extraordinary animals—which belong to all of us; they are part of our natural environment; they are precious to all of us—and working very effectively with the local people up there who share the love of these animals.

In fact, the first time I learnt about the dugong was when I was working in Townsville. Some of the elders from the Torres Strait came to Townsville, to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, and talked to us about the special relationship that the people have with these animals in that region. They also talked about the longstanding relationship in terms of hunting these animals, but they talked most particularly about the balance, which is so important in community, to grow community and maintain tradition.

Senator Hinch, I have also heard the stories you described. They are horrific and they don't reflect the kind of respect that is traditional in this area. When the Traditional Use of Marine Resources Agreements were developed, they were very clear. The traditional-use agreements describe how Great Barrier Reef traditional owner groups work in partnership with the Australian and Queensland governments to manage traditional-use activities on their sea country. The important thing—and I think it is one of the things that Senator Scullion was talking about—is how we get people working effectively in these partnerships, sharing the traditional respect and sharing the traditional knowledge and skills. One of the things that was most concerning, Senator Hinch, was when you talked about how you feel there is a breakdown in generational respect and that what we need to do is rebuild the core of what we're talking about when we're talking about the agreements. When individual agreements are signed, that brings into being how the long-term historical relationships are established.

There should be further development of the marine rangers program, which uses local people to continue to not just maintain and keep records of where the animals are and how they can be best looked after but also retrain the people who live in those communities about their responsibilities to their own communities, to their families, to their history and to the protection of this wonderful marine life. Also in this space, it is particularly important that we keep a balance. There must be effective scientific monitoring. James Cook does do monitoring, but I think we can do better. We can collect better data.

One of the things that Helene Marsh has talked about is the fact that there are other contributing factors to the loss of animals in this space. The things that stay in my mind are the welfare issues around being caught, drowning in nets and ingesting marine debris. We had a Senate inquiry on that quite recently, and the horrors of marine debris and the impact it had on the marine life in that place still haunt me.

When you brought this forward, Senator Hinch, I did some background research. That referred to a federal government report done last year by the Australian Crime Intelligence Commission, which looked at issues around the taking of turtle and dugong meat. This particular report doesn't seem to have been made public yet; they've made statements out of it. The ACIC chief executive said that the two-year investigation found no substantive evidence of any organised illegal trade in meat. I think you were referring to that aspect of the illegal trade. This ACIC report looked at those issues and came up with the finding that there was no evidence of that trade. But what we have not seen is that report and, as a result of this discussion this afternoon, I will continue to ask about whether we have had— (Time expired)

Janet Rice (Victoria, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Hinch, for bringing this issue to the attention of the Senate. It is a pleasure to debate the future and the protection of some of our most important wildlife here in the Senate tonight. The Australian Greens always stand for strong environmental and marine protection laws. We know there are monumental pressures on our native animals due to the loss of their habitats as a result of global warming and pollution. For marine animals, we can then add a whole range of other risks: entanglement in nets, boat strikes and other accidental interactions with people. There is absolutely no defendable case that native animals—in this case, dugongs and sea turtles—that are already under this pressure should also be struggling for their survival because of commercial and recreational fishers and hunters.

We categorically condemn the commercial and recreational take of threatened, endangered, vulnerable or protected species, whether on land or in marine environments. In the case of dugongs and varieties of sea turtles, we know that these animals are variously listed as threatened, endangered, vulnerable or protected across northern Australia. Indeed, nearly all species of sea turtles are classified as endangered. That means they are on that trajectory to no longer being with us. So it's shocking that populations of these animals are suffering from poaching and overexploitation.

We're urging the Commonwealth, state and territory governments, through their environmental protection agencies, to commit to much better and closer monitoring of these animal populations, to commit to strong laws that prohibit unsustainable take and to commit sufficient resources to protection or recovery plans, where needed, so that these plans can be successful.

It's also clearly essential that we recognise the rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to traditional and ceremonial practices. We know that the traditional owners of sea country care deeply about the conservation of these native animals. We respect the wisdom and custodianship of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander traditional owners, which has developed over thousands of years. We also know that there are challenges in relation to the maintenance of cultural hunting practices alongside the conservation work needed to ensure the survival of species. It's important that traditional owners are absolutely engaged in the leadership of this conservation work and that it's not a top-down approach from government.

We see the way forward in addressing these practices that you've outlined, Senator Hinch, is to be strong supporters of the Indigenous ranger program and, in this case in particular, the sea country rangers. Indigenous ranger programs have been very successful in enabling traditional owners to maintain a connection with their land and their sea and, in doing so, to protect native wildlife. We must continue to support and expand the Indigenous ranger programs around the country. I think we should consider looking at what enforcement powers Indigenous rangers should have in caring for their sea country. It's actually not appropriate to have top-down government enforcement. Indigenous rangers want to, and can, protect their country.

Senator Hinch, even though the images that you brought to us today of the slaughtered animals are shocking, we must not lose sight of the fact that there are other multiple and massive threats to our native wildlife. While the hunting of native species is an issue we absolutely need to address, we have to tackle some of the other major issues as well. There are toxic plastics choking our oceans and chronic overfishing. In particular, we need to be tackling and taking serious action on global warming. We could do everything possible today to protect dugongs and sea turtles—but without protecting those animals from the impacts of global warming, all of those measures would be for nothing. We know that dugongs rely upon seagrass populations, and seagrass is very vulnerable to the impacts of severe weather. With the more intensive cyclones, hundreds of kilometres of seagrass can be wiped out. When beaches become inundated, the sand gets hotter and sea turtle populations can be wiped out. We have to tackle global warming. (Time expired)

Anne Ruston (SA, Liberal Party, Assistant Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Hinch for raising this extraordinarily important issue, not only in this chamber but for taking the time to come and raise it with me as well. It is an issue that, unquestionably, will resonate with all Australians. Nobody, absolutely nobody, wants to see cruelty to turtles or dugongs. Anybody who wasn't horrified by the stories and the images that Senator Hinch has brought to us—and by some of the alleged practices in the northern part of Australia in relation to these beautiful creatures—is nothing but heartless. Nobody supports the illegal slaughter of these or any other animals; anybody caught doing this should, and will, have the full weight of the law thrown at them.

However, we also need to be mindful that we in this place all support Indigenous Australians who want to exercise their rights and interests under native title—that is, in this instance, the hunting of turtles and dugongs for personal, domestic or non-commercial communal needs in accordance with their traditional laws and customs. We also acknowledge that dugong and turtle are a very important source of protein for traditional inhabitants, particularly those who inhabit the area of the Torres Strait. Outside of this very limited take, no dugong or turtle should ever be slaughtered. In fact, I doubt that you're going to get any argument at all on this position from the Indigenous community. I'm really looking forward to hearing, in a little while, the contribution of Senator McCarthy, who is very close to this issue. She can speak for the Indigenous community on this particular issue, but I hope I'm not speaking out of turn in saying that I believe that the Indigenous community is equally concerned about any illegal take of these beautiful animals which are such an important part of Indigenous culture. I also know that the Indigenous community is working really hard with the federal government to stamp out some of the barbaric behaviours which Senator Hinch referred to.

If there is a good news story in this very sad and tragic affair, it's the Indigenous rangers program that Senator Scullion raised. That program is operating successfully in the northern part of the country, particularly in the Torres Strait. These rangers are the frontline warriors who are defending the turtle and the dugong, and who are reporting illegal findings, unacceptable behaviour and non-compliance. Not for one minute do I want to diminish what you have put on the record, Senator Hinch, but it is comforting to hear that arrests have been made and charges laid, and most of this has been made possible through the fantastic work of Indigenous rangers.

I also want to acknowledge the dugong sanctuary in the western part of the Torres Strait, where hunting is now prohibited. My understanding is that the Torres Strait community is working hard to have a similar approach applied to the hunting of turtles in that area. We probably need to be clear that there are a number of issues that have been raised by you, Senator Hinch. The threats to the existence of turtles and dugongs are, we know, not just the activities that you were talking about but also marine pollution and habitat decreasing. The impact of Indigenous fishing has been proved to be a reasonably small component of that. But we're not talking, necessarily, about legitimate Indigenous fishing; you're talking about illegal, barbaric activities and things that none of us in this place can possibly condone. We're also talking about cruelty. There is not a person in this place—I'd like them to stand up if there is—that condones cruelty of any kind against these beautiful creatures.

I acknowledge that this is a really sensitive issue for many who find the activities and actions that you talked about very confronting—and, I have to say, Senator Hinch, I'm one of those people. We must use all the tools that are available to us to protect these much-loved creatures. I'm happy to continue to work with you to ensure that turtles and dugongs have the highest possible protection and to ensure that, when they are killed under traditional law, it's done so without unnecessary cruelty. (Time expired)

Louise Pratt (WA, Australian Labor Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would also like to thank Senator Hinch for putting this issue on record for us this evening. I feel very lucky to represent the state of WA. In our backyard, we have a unique and wonderful abundance of wildlife, flora and fauna, and especially our marine life. I know you, Madam Acting Deputy President, will wholeheartedly agree with me. Along our 13,500 kilometres of coastline, which is phenomenal, we have marine life from massive whale sharks and humpbacks to the much smaller sea turtles that are part of tonight's debate. Of the seven species of sea turtle across the world, six of them appear in the Kimberley coastline and five of those species are also known to nest there. There are dugongs from Shark Bay all the way up over the Northern Territory and the north, but there's a big part of Western Australia that is known as one of the world's best habitats for dugong.

There is no doubt that the existence of sea turtles on the WA coast is particularly at threat. Our state's Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Act has listed the loggerhead and olive ridley species as endangered, meaning that if the current threats to their existence continue they will become extinct. This same act lists the hawksbill green and flatbacked turtles as vulnerable, which means their populations are also at risk of becoming endangered.

As has been highlighted already by others in this debate, the Indigenous ranger programs around our nation have a really important role to play in marine conservation. They are successfully doing so in Western Australia. Both the Nyangumarta and the Nyul Nyul rangers have been working to protect the sea turtle species in WA. They've been doing this by monitoring the turtles' activities, particularly during nesting times, and they're monitoring the nesting through the warmer parts of the year when they nest. I can also put on record tonight that the Pormpuraaw Land and Sea Rangers in the Cape York Peninsula have recognised the threat posed by feral pig populations that affect the reproduction of sea turtles along their coast. Feral pigs are killing endangered marine turtles by destroying their nests and eating the eggs that are left behind. So it's not just human threats to this wildlife; it is, indeed, the feral animals as well. The rangers have been culling feral populations, monitoring for predation by the pigs to these nesting areas and providing predator-proof cages for the turtles.

The Kimberley Land Council raised with me recently—and I had the privilege of going to their ranger conference a few weeks ago—the importance of them having proper regulatory and policing powers to do their work as rangers in order to protect these species. This is so that the kinds of examples that Senator Hinch has been talking about can be properly policed by our Indigenous rangers. This will take training and investment in their skills, and it also means that they need to be paid properly for this work. Our ranger communities are the people on our coastline. This is their community and their environment. They're connected by culture to the coastline, and they are the right people to be doing this work. It's not like there is a particularly big presence of any other surveillance along the coast in these circumstances. So it's critical that rangers be empowered to do this work. I'm particularly pleased that federal Labor committed at the budget to providing $210 million over five years to double the number of Indigenous rangers under the Working on Country program, and I really hope that they will be able to make a contribution to this important work. (Time expired)

Cory Bernardi (SA, Australian Conservatives) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I have to say that it's a very recent interest of mine, dugongs and sea turtles, and it was driven principally by Colin Riddell through his torment of me on Twitter. He was continuing to tag me—or whatever they do—in tweets with pictures of dugongs, baby dugongs, adult dugongs and green sea turtles, and it piqued my interest. Eventually I responded and said: 'Enough is enough. You've got my interest, and I want to find out more about this.'

I haven't been to Cairns or to North Queensland to examine this issue like Senator Hinch has, so I don't know what I don't know, and I've learned a lot by listening to this debate today. But I have commissioned some research into this and the intention behind allowing native hunting and native title hunting. I have to state for the record that I'm not opposed to people hunting animals for food or even for recreation. I don't particularly like it myself, but I'm a realist in this sense. But I'm not a big fan of giving certain people special rights over others. However, interestingly, there was a contribution from the Law Society—I'm referring to some research here—with respect to native title hunting. It says that there may be some conflict between what the original inhabitants of Australia would like to do, or have been historically doing, and the interests of conservation here. I think we're wise to be mindful that, where competing rights in our community are at odds, we have to find a workable solution.

I do note that the workable solution, I understand, from 1987 to 2002, was a permit-based system. The permit-based system was designed to allow a sustainable harvest, which is wise and prudent, but also to monitor the hunting levels, so that accurate records could be kept. I'm disappointed, of course, that a lot of the people who chose to go out and hunt these turtles and dugongs chose not to participate in the permit system. Somehow they thought that it didn't apply to them and it wasn't necessary. So that was abandoned in favour of a zonal system in the Great Barrier Reef.

I remain unconvinced by either side of the argument. I know how people will embellish arguments to support their cause, but accurate hunting numbers are very, very difficult to ascertain. But what is not difficult to ascertain is how these species are considered by various governments. If we talk about the Queensland government for a moment, the green turtle is listed as vulnerable and is protected; the loggerhead turtle is endangered; the hawk's bill turtle is vulnerable; and the dugong is deemed to be vulnerable, too. These are all harvested using modern technology and modern conditions to preserve an ancient tribal right or cultural right that never included outboard motors or never included spear guns, modern ropes or things of that nature. This is one of the great conflicts there. If you want to preserve the traditional, historical rights of Aboriginal people to hunt as they always have, how can it be rational and reasonable to allow them to hunt slow-moving dugongs and turtles with outboard motors?

It is only going increase their take rather than the cultural heritage which it purports to represent.

There are a great many conflicts that we have to resolve in this. I support Senator Hinch's interest in this. I'm interested in it too, not from any particular perspective except that I want to find out what the truth is. Unfortunately, I have to say, I'm more aware of some of the issues that have arisen from this debate, but I still don't know quite where the truth lies. Governments, ministers and oppositions will tell you certain things based on their interpretation of facts, as Senator Hinch's hosts in Cairns will tell other facts or statements from their perspective. But I will put on the record that I do intend to get to Cairns. I do intend going to the turtle hospital and going out onto the reef and having a look and talking to people on both sides of the equation to ascertain for myself, as closely as I can, where the truth lies. I'm not opposed to hunting, but something here doesn't smell right, and I think that needs to be resolved.

Concetta Fierravanti-Wells (NSW, Liberal Party, Minister for International Development and the Pacific) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I thank Senator Hinch for his matter of public importance today. The Australian government is committed to the protection of dugongs and turtles and acknowledges the native title rights of Indigenous people to hunt on their land and sea country. The Minister for the Environment and Energy, the Hon. Josh Frydenberg MP, has discussed allegations of the illegal hunting of turtles and dugongs with a number of his colleagues. The Australian government will work with Indigenous communities to ensure we have the most appropriate arrangements in place to sustainably manage these iconic species and protect them from illegal hunting.

There is a significant body of research available on the size and trend in populations of turtle and dugong in Australian waters. Numerous studies have found the overall impact of traditional hunting on turtle and dugong populations to be relatively small, with the main impacts on these species being climate events, habitat loss and entanglement in and ingesting of marine debris. This is a sensitive issue for Indigenous Australians who have native title rights to hunt turtle and dugong, just as it is a sensitive issue for people who find such hunting confronting. While some groups may agree to collect data on the sustainability of hunting, other groups will be fearful that this is the first step towards eroding their rights.

The coalition's Dugong and Turtle Protection Plan is currently delivering $5.3 million for the protection of dugongs and turtles in North Queensland and the Torres Strait. This includes $2 million to support the training of Indigenous rangers in compliance related activities. A $2 million Australian Crime Intelligence Commission investigation into the practice of illegal killing, poaching and transportation of turtle and dugong meat was referred to by Senator Moore. The investigation subsequently found that the poaching and sale of meat was almost certainly minimal and usually opportunistic, and that there was no substantive evidence to suggest that an organised commercial trade existed in Queensland or the Torres Strait area. I advise the Senate that relevant ministers are currently considering the contents of this investigation report.

The Dugong and Turtle Protection Plan also includes $700,000 towards marine debris clean-up activities in the Great Barrier Reef to reduce impacts on turtles and dugongs. In February 2015, through amendments to the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 and the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act 1975, the coalition government tripled penalties for killing or injuring turtles and dugongs. In June 2016, the traditional owners near Cairns agreed to no take of turtles and dugongs in three areas around Green Island, Michaelmas Cay and Fitzroy Island. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority has also accredited this under what is known as a traditional use of marine resources agreement. The joint Australian and Queensland government's Nest to Ocean Turtle Protection Program is providing $7 million to protect marine turtle nests from terrestrial predators such as feral pigs.

In June last year the government announced new initiatives for compliance vessels to support communities in the Cairns area to implement traditional uses and to reduce marine debris around the northern Australian coastline. In May this year Minister Frydenberg, jointly with the Queensland minister and the New South Wales minister, approved a recovery plan for marine turtles in Australia. We remain committed to protecting dugongs and turtles, through an agreement with the government of Papua New Guinea, under the Torres Strait Treaty of 1985, which protects the Torres Strait marine environment and indigenous flora and fauna but allows traditional inhabitants to hunt turtles and dugongs in the area, according to established custom.

The Torres Strait Regional Authority's Dugong and Turtle Management Project supports the sustainable take and culturally appropriate management of dugongs and marine turtles in the Torres Strait. This is in line with community based plans that integrate traditional use and contemporary science and management approaches. I conclude, Senator Hinch, by thanking you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Malarndirri McCarthy (NT, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would like to commend Senator Hinch for bringing to the Senate this MPI about protecting dugongs and sea turtles. The speakers here this evening have, most importantly, raised concerns around the care and protection of dugongs and sea turtles. I want to share with the Senate the cultural and spiritual importance of dugong and sea turtle—in particular, to the Yanyuwa people, to whom I belong, in the Gulf Country. We are known as li-antha wirriyarra, which means our spiritual origins are in the sea country, so dugongs and sea turtles are very much what we are about. We have a dance called the ngardiji, which means the mermaid dance and the dreaming. In terms of cultural and spiritual significance, those stories of country are integral to the way first nations people live.

But there is no room for the desecration and the incredible cruelty that we've seen at different stages over the years. The penalties that are there should apply. Clearly, if you break the law, those penalties need to apply. The strength of the first nations rangers on our coastlines—in particular, in northern Australia—is absolutely outstanding. I've heard speakers today talk about what are traditional practices and what are contemporary practices of first nations people. Believe me, that is an ongoing conversation that takes place, even within our own families across Australia, as first nations people.

I would like to share a couple of the language words that the Yanyuwa people use, because this helps us when we explain and describe the importance of cultural and spiritual linkages to these beautiful sea creatures. Yurduwiji means the dust that is stirred up in the seagrass country. Yurduwiji arrawa means that the sea dust is there because of the dugong as opposed to sea dust that might be brought up because of other issues, like cyclones or changes in tides. This is important. The sediment disturbed by feeding dugong and sea turtle is manginy. All of this is very much a part of our cultural understanding of who we are as first nations people, as Yanyuwa, li-antha wirriyarra.

The use of canoes went on very much right up to my mother's time. My mother sailed the seas in the canoes of the Yanyuwa. The use of canoes was very much a part of hunting for dugong and sea turtle. I disagree with speakers when they say that you shouldn't use speedboats. I think we have to take the use of speedboats into consideration. If I refer back to my own clan and kinship groups in the Gulf Country, there is also a deep respect in how that hunting takes place. The use of speedboats means slowing down. People need the speedboats to get out to the island country but, when they know they're hunting for dugong, something else takes place—a deeper respect of how you're going to do it. What we use in the Gulf Country is harpoons. There is a real pride that comes with being a dugong hunter and doing it properly, with the deepest of respect.

The dugong hunter plays a significant role in terms of kinship responsibility. When a dugong hunter goes out and hunts a dugong, then brings it back to the land, the dugong is turned to face towards the sea. Again, there is a blessing that goes with how that dugong not only has just been caught but is about to be killed to feed the clan and the family group that are gathered on any of the many islands in the Gulf Country. It may be on West Island, North Island, Centre Island, Vanderlin Island, South West Island, Black Craggy Island, White Craggy Island or Skull Island. These are the islands that make up the Yanyuwa country, where the dugongs and sea turtles live.

We have a ranger group called the Li-Anthawirriyarra Sea Rangers, who are incredibly proud of monitoring all of that coastal area to care for and protect the dugongs and sea turtles—so much so that they will come down hard on anyone, Indigenous or otherwise, who is doing the wrong thing; either in terms of exploiting the dugongs and sea turtles or in terms of their sale. If there is a black market out there, they are the front line. It is significant that we have these first nations rangers. They must be enabled to be resourced far better than they are. I commend Senator Scullion for the work that he does with the rangers, but I know that this parliament can do so much more in terms of facing what we know is a growing concern, not just about the dugongs and sea turtles but also about anyone who's trying to come into Australia and anyone who's doing anything illegal with other goods across the seas. These sea rangers are usually the first ones who will know about what's happening on their country, on the seas and on the land. In the Northern Territory there are 130 rangers who are employed, full-time and or on a casual basis, and half of them work on protection programs. Recently, there has been promotional material developed in consultation with the NLC rangers and the Northern Territory Department of Environment and Natural Resources around the responsible harvest of eggs.

In Borroloola, there's been a long-term project monitoring nesting rates. On West Island, where they have the home of the flatback sea turtles, it is part of a school holiday program to take the kids back out on country to teach them, again, of li-anthawirriyarra—the importance and the essence of being people who are strong from the sea but care about the sea country, the seabeds, and understand the meaning of all of those things. In Yanyuwa, there is a relationship with all of it. Just as there is a relationship between the dugong hunter and the dugong, there is a relationship with the seabeds and the sea country—where the grass seabeds are, in the area of the islands, or out in the open sea further towards deeper water. All of these things are taught as part of looking at the nesting programs of the flatback sea turtles out on West Island. It is an incredible program that the sea rangers are very proud of. They are very proud of the monitoring, but also very proud of sharing the knowledge.

The other thing about the spiritual relationship with the sea country is that there is great sadness at even the death of one dugong. If that dugong is there and has been cut to feed the family, there is sorrow with that. That comes back to the religious and spiritual relationship of why dugongs are important and, again, I speak specifically for the Yanyuwa. I share this because I think it might give a bit of insight as to why people don't want to see the desecration of or the cruelty to any animals and, if that is occurring, then those penalties need to apply and they must be enforced.

I note that Senator Scullion mentioned other things that impact our sea creatures—the fishing industry with its boats, nets, ghost nets, which have caused more harm to our sea turtles than anything else. I thank you, Senator Hinch, for bringing this to the Senate.

Ian Macdonald (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The issue raised by Senator Hinch has been around a long time. I've been in the Senate almost 30 years, and it was an issue 30 years ago. Since that time, advances have been made. We all appreciate that the dugong and turtle are very special animals but are also animals that need to be protected, if they are to continue. We do understand and appreciate that they have a special significance for Indigenous people. It's important therefore that the species continue to exist so that cultural connection is available to Indigenous communities into the future. To do that, we have to ensure that any hunting of dugong and turtle for traditional purposes must be done in the traditional way. The use of speedboats and mechanised killing equipment is really not part of the game.

I have formed some very strong views on this subject over the years and I have checked my views with the ultimate expert in relation to dugongs and turtles—a former crocodile farmer and hunter, who has one of the best aviaries in Australia and whose wife runs a very special cattle station—and that is the member for Leichhardt, the Hon. Warren Entsch, who has been on this particular subject for a long period of time. He agrees with me, and I agree with him, that for the species to continue and for traditional native title and cultural rights to be observed, it is important that the species only be taken in the traditional way. They shouldn't be hunted in green zones or protected areas, and they should not be allowed to be caught by commercial netting. Apparently, there are instances of this in the north all of the time.

It is essential that meat from dugongs and turtles is not allowed to be cryovacked and then transported by air to other parts of Australia. This is not part of the traditional use of dugong and turtle, and it needs to be stamped out. It's very important that we do support the ranger program that was introduced by the Howard government and has been emphasised by the Abbott and Turnbull governments. It's a great program; the rangers do a fantastic job. They are the ones who can control and monitor the proper take and proper conservation of turtles and dugongs. But there are instances, and I think Senator Hinch mentioned some, particularly at Green Island, where tourists from all around the world, including Japan, come to Green Island to be told by the guides how special these animals are. But one family group—only one family group—ignore the elders, ignore the rangers, ignore the significant traditional owners and are killing these animals on the beach at Green Island in front of Japanese tourists, who turn to each other and say, 'Well, Australia criticises us for killing whales, and here we are on Green Island and, in front of everyone, they are slaughtering these very, very special animals.' That has to stop. The former Newman government in Queensland passed some very stringent laws. Unfortunately, those laws—which would prevent this and impose penalties—haven't been followed up in recent times. It's essential that they are.

There are instances of people doing the wrong thing. By and large, traditional owners do the right thing. I repeat that the rangers do a fantastic job in monitoring and trying to protect the species. They need to be given more power so they can stamp out the bad practices of a few wildcards who flout the laws and treat these animals inhumanely and with disrespect.

Alex Gallacher (SA, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! The time for the discussion has expired.