Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer the minister to the words of the late Harry Evans, the longest-serving Clerk of the Senate:

The value of estimates hearings in improving accountability and probity of government has long been widely recognised. The hearings allow apparent problems in government operations to be explored and exposed, and give rise to a large amount of information which would not otherwise be disclosed. They have come to be recognised as a major parliamentary institution of accountability.

Minister, won't the government's plans to axe a full week from the traditional four weeks of Senate estimates lead to less accountability, lower standards of probity and reduced disclosure of information, and mean that any problems in government operations are not properly explored and exposed by the Senate?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you very much for that question, especially on a day where the House has just censured the former Prime Minister for dual—

Opposition senators interjec ting—

I'm happy to take the questions! Nine years, you had—nine years!

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order! Senator Cash! Senator Henderson!

Dean Smith (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That is so 46th Parliament!

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Dean Smith! Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I will take that interjection. You're right; the parliament under you was a parliament which was not respected. The Westminster system does actually require ministers to be accountable through the parliament to the Australian people. Who was the accountable minister in that place? Mr Morrison and another! So don't come in here telling Australians you care about accountability when they saw nine years of cover-up, saw nine years of sports rorts, saw nine years where you refused the basic standards of probity—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order on my left! Your leader has asked a question. I cannot hear the response. Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remind those opposite of some of their standards of accountability: changing the law to hide significant energy price increases from the Australian people until after the election; refusing to release the State of the environment report because it contained too much damning proof that the environment was in a poor and deteriorating state; and, of course—something that was refused to be answered in estimates—all the sports rorts questions, which, in estimates, you never answered. As those opposite would know—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, please resume your seat. Order on my left!

Senator McKenzie! I've called the chamber to order. I expect to be able to hear the minister in relative quiet and to stop yelling louder than the minister is speaking. Minister, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I knew Harry Evans and I had a lot of respect for him. I would remind those opposite that additional estimates statements are associated with MYEFO. We have had a budget and we are having estimates associated with the budget. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham, your first supplementary question.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Minister, Prime Minister Albanese has said again and again that the Australian people deserve transparency and accountability. Won't the axing of a full week of Senate estimates lead to less transparency and less accountability? How can the axing of this week be anything other than the Labor government taking an axe to government accountability and transparency?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I would invite those opposite that if they want to talk about accountability to perhaps consider some of what is being disclosed through the Royal Commission into Robodebt and the—

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You won't talk about yourself, will you?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

You know, it's really interesting, Senator Birmingham; aren't you a Johnny-come-lately to this issue of integrity? You were a senior minister in that government. Did you have the spine to stand up and tell Scott Morrison he was wrong? Did you have the spine to stand up and tell Mr Taylor he was wrong? You know that you're always talking, aren't you—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong!

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Where's the spine? Show a bit of leadership! Everyone will know—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong! Resume your seat.

Honourable senators interjecting—

Order! I have a senator on his feet—

Senator McGrath! Senator Scarr, on a point of order.

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

President, I think that the Leader of the Government in this place should—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Scarr, what is your point?

Paul Scarr (Queensland, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Directing comments through you, President, as opposed to gesticulating rudely at the member of the opposition and not referring to him correctly.

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, Senator Scarr. Minister Wong, please continue.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I remember how long they fought against an anticorruption commission. I remember how long they fought against that. And now this man, who is a member of the leadership group, has the temerity to come in here and tell us about transparency! He's discovered it now he's on that side! Everybody knows: no leadership, no backbone and a Johnny-come-lately on transparency. (Time expired)

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Birmingham, your second supplementary question.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I—

Honou rable senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order!. Senator Birmingham, please resume your seat. This is a most disorderly start to question time and I'm going to ask those on my left and my right to listen with respect. Senator Birmingham.

Simon Birmingham (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, President. Together with Senators Babet, Hansen, Lambie, Pocock, Roberts and Tyrrell, I have just written to Senator Wong, and the minister, indicating that we do not accept the arguments put forward by the government to defend its cutting of Senate estimates and that we will not be in a position to support the proposed sitting schedule for 2023. If, as you say, you're all for transparency, accountability and respect of the parliament, will you listen to the crossbench senators and the opposition, and revisit your decision to axe this estimates week?

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Wong, please wait for the call. Senator Wong.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Thank you, President. It's interesting how quickly conventions which we observed for nine years are junked by those opposite.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

No! Let me just finish this. For nine years, the Greens moved amendments to your sitting pattern which we never supported. It didn't take you very long, did it? There are a few other conventions in this place if you want to go down this path. Additional estimates are for the purpose of examining the estimates from MYEFO. That is actually what they are for. And we have—

Opposition senators interjecting—

Sue Lines (President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator Cash, I'm calling your side—

Senator Watt! I'm waiting for quiet until I call the minister back again. Minister.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

As I said, the additional estimates have been for the purpose of examining the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook update. It's a technicality; it's because, constitutionally, the budget—oh!

Would you like to answer the question? You didn't answer the questions in government, would you like to answer them now? (Time expired)