Michaelia Cash (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak on the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Amendment (Strengthening Quality and Integrity in Vocational Education and Training No. 1) Bill 2024. In doing so, I note that the most significant change proposed by this bill is for the Minister for Skills and Training, as is so often the case now across this government in different portfolios, to seek to directly control market entry of new registered training organisations. Again, that is what the minister for skills is seeking to do in this bill. He is seeking to directly control market entry of new registered training organisations.

I also note, though, that the bill introduces a new power that allows the minister, by legislative instrument, to direct the regulator, the Australian Skills Quality Authority, to pause the registrations of new registered training organisations. This would need to be agreed with state and territory skills ministers. The bill also tightens rules for RTOs in their first two years of operation and makes a number of changes to the way the regulator, ASQA, processes and prioritises the registrations of new training organisations.

The government, in typical Albanese government style, has framed this bill as a response to integrity and quality issues. When you look at it like that, you think to yourself, 'This is a response to integrity and quality issues within the training sector, so all must be okay.' However, feedback from across the sector is, yet again, that there was very minimal consultation before it was introduced. But, again, that is a highlight of this government. They talked big on transparency prior to the election. Then, suddenly, portfolio across portfolio across portfolio across portfolio, when bills are presented, stakeholders say: 'Hey. Hold on. We haven't been consulted with.' Again, this is a very, very bad process. It certainly does not indicate the transparency that this government campaigned on prior to the election. But, as I said, it is, unfortunately, as we have all come to know, now the modus operandi of the Albanese government.

Given the track record of this government putting government-run training providers ahead of the needs of students and their outcomes, the approach to this bill actually gave cause to just pause and have a look at it. We do like to consult. We liked to consult when we were in government, unlike the current government. Both in government but also in opposition it's incredibly important. We went out and we sought the views of the training sector and the business groups on what the changes would mean for them. What would be the impact of the changes on the relevant people affected by this legislation? While there was a high level of caution around this bill, particularly around the minister's new power to pause the establishment of new training organisations, there was a broad alignment on the intent of the bill. However, what was made very, very clear to us was that some amendments were required. Obviously, as the coalition, we have tabled a number of amendments, and I am pleased that the government has agreed to support the amendments so that we are able to make this bill a better bill.

As I said, there are noted concerns around transparency and accountability of this new ministerial power. The opposition will put forward amendments that will force the minister to publicly justify the use of this power to the sector, the parliament and the public and to mandate that a determination to pause the establishment of new training organisations be in place for no longer than a 12-month period. We believe these amendments will establish an important guardrail for this new power. They will also enshrine a level of protection that would prevent the minister putting in place a pause that would in fact turn into a de facto ban. The principle here is that we expect that this power would be rarely used and, therefore, there should be increased transparency and accountability when it is exercised by the minister.

It is also important that we do not overreach with intervention here, because what we do want to do as a coalition is very much what we did in government—that is, support our dynamic and innovative skills and training sector in Australia. So, it's important the government does not overbalance in pursuit of the objective, and it is a very worthy objective, of quality outcomes. But we also need to be aware of the consequences when the government gets this area of policy wrong. That is why, as I said, we consulted with the sector as the opposition, unlike the government, which did very limited consultation. The sector said to us, 'We need these amendments to make the bill (a) a more workable bill and (b) a better bill.' The coalition is therefore putting forward the amendments, and I understand that the government will be supporting them.

Of course, we should never forget why we're in this position in the first place and why we need to strengthen this regulator. If you look back to the coalition's time in office versus the former Labor government's time when they were last in office, it is a direct comparison. It was an absolutely appalling record for the last Labor government in relation to skills policy when they were last in office. In fact, when you talk to stakeholders today, they are actually still scarred by what occurred. They will also say to you that everything the former Labor government touched in relation to skills ended up being detrimental to the sector and was a total disaster. That is actually borne out by the statistics. Apprenticeship numbers plummeted. Here is the statistic. When Labor last left office, apprentice and training numbers were in freefall, with the number of those in training collapsing by 22 per cent. And this still scars people today because we are still seeing the effects of it.

The most egregious of Labor's failures was their absolutely doomed VET FEE-HELP disaster. You talk to people about it today—I've talked to people who were affected by it at the time. Seriously, they do not have a good news story to tell about the former Labor government. As we know, the former Labor government's VET FEE-HELP scheme saw the very proud reputation of the Australian skills sector hit rock bottom as tens of thousands of Australians were loaded up with debt for doing courses that would never get them a job. This was a scheme established by the former Labor government in 2008. They then expanded it in 2012. It was plagued by system-wide rorting, with some training providers exploiting loose rules and charging students substantial debts for training—you will never believe this!—they never undertook or benefited from. And yet the system was able to be rorted and the training providers were able to exploit the rules to the detriment of vulnerable students in the sector, some of whom are still paying off debts today.

The scheme targeted, appallingly, people with disabilities, people with substance abuse issues, public housing residents and people from non-English speaking backgrounds. Others—and this was a shocking part of the exploitation of Labor's scheme—were offered free laptops and other incentives to sign up to courses without knowing they were about to be saddled with a debt that was going to last them a very, very long time. In fact, in 2014, the Hon. Michael Lavarch was the commissioner then responsible for risk intelligence and regulatory support at the Australian Skills Quality Authority. This is what he said about Labor's VET FEE-HELP scheme:

I have been in and around public life for a long time. I think I can fairly say that this was the worst piece of public policy I have ever seen.

What an absolute indictment of the former Labor government and the policy that they put in place. Guess what? It is 2024, Senator Scarr. Taxpayers are still picking up the tab for this enormous public policy failure and, to date, this failure of Labor government policy has cost the Australian taxpayer $3.5 billion. You can laugh all you like about that but that is a direct failure of Labor government policy that has now cost the Australian taxpayer over $3.5 billion. But this is the ironic part: who presided over these values at the time? Well, none other than the then member for Gorton, who is now returned as the skills minister. That is why consultation on legislation that the Albanese government brings forward is so important, because it is the same member today who is responsible for the failures of the former Labor government, in particular, a scheme that was rorted, that resulted in the exploitation of students and has cost the Australian taxpayer $3.5 billion today. Can you honestly imagine, with a cost-of-living crisis, what you could do with $3.5 billion?

Let's jump forward to 2024. What we are seeing again, and this is now borne out by the statistics, is the impact of the Albanese government's approach to skills. The latest data from the National Centre for Vocational Education and Research shows the Albanese government is again overseeing a collapse in the number of apprentices and trainees in every single state and in almost every electorate across the nation. After just one year of the Albanese government, there are over 50,000 fewer apprentices and trainees in training today than when Labor took office. That is a loss of one in 10 in just one year. The data also shows commencements of apprentices and trainees have dropped by 40.1 per cent over the same period. What that means is 110,000 fewer Australians started a new course, qualification or trade under the last year of Labor versus those who started under the last year of the former government. The data has also been broken down by electorate and it shows that, in the final year of the coalition government, in-training numbers increased—not decreased, increased—in every electorate across Australia bar one, while under the first year of the Albanese government, the number of apprentices and trainees has dropped in every electorate except four. That is the actual fact. They are the statistics of the impact of government policy. Under the coalition, you saw an increase; under Labor, you have seen a decrease. You can't make excuses for that; that is just bad policy.

In fact, in the minister's own electorate in the last year of the Liberal government, the numbers went up by 32 per cent. In his first year in office, he has lost 10 per cent of the apprentices and trainees in his community. Let's have a look at the Treasurer's electorate. In the final year of the Liberal government the numbers went up by 43 per cent. In the first year of office of the Treasurer, he has now seen over a 15 per cent drop in the number of apprentices and trainees in his own community.

Instead of worrying about these decreases, the Labor Party just changed their narrative. Instead of taking responsibility they continue to blame the former coalition government. Last time I looked at the statistics, they showed the policies we put in place, the investment we put in place, actually had a positive impact on the sector. The narrative that those opposite ran for nine years when the coalition were in government was that we had cut funding from skills, which, as we know, the statistics show is not true. What they are now saying is that the coalition spent $3.8 billion annually to 'prop up the apprenticeship system'. That was from the member for Gorton, the Labor Party. I would have said to the coalition: congratulations for investing in the apprenticeship system in this country, which is what was so desperately needed. On one hand the government are saying—when it suits them—that we cut funding but on the other hand they are saying we apparently over-funded skills. You could not make this up. But the reality is you can't have it both ways. You can't just change your rhetoric to suit your political narrative, because ultimately you will be caught out by the statistics. It is a fact that, when it comes to funding under the former coalition government, our policies invested over $13 billion in skills over the final two years of the coalition government alone. We also didn't just clean up Labor's mess; we made the most significant reforms to skills in over a decade.

It is actually very disappointing as a former skills minister to now see the detrimental impact Albanese government policy is having on the skills sector in Australia. They came to power promising they would resolve the skills shortages, and what we are seeing is that they have delivered a collapse in apprenticeship and trainees starts and a collapse in the number of Australians in training.

Mehreen Faruqi (NSW, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise to speak to the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Amendment (Strengthening Quality and Integrity in Vocational Education and Training No. 1) Bill 2024. This bill amends the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Act 2011 with the aim of improving the quality of vocational education and training. The Greens support the bill. The Greens are proudly the party of fully funded public education where students have fee-free access to the best learning conditions and where staff enjoy secure, well-paid jobs and feel valued and respected for the incredible work that they do. The Greens will always support TAFEs and public universities as the primary provider of education and training and the first priority for government funding.

Education is a fundamental public good. It should never be privatised and it should never be for profit, yet, tragically, for years and years, we have seen our excellent TAFE system ripped apart by successive governments through regulatory neglect, significant underfunding and the destructive privatisation of the sector. TAFEs do excellent work despite these circumstances, but the government's market model has been putting the sector under huge pressure, with job insecurity, poor working conditions and private providers getting away with the neglect and exploitation of students.

We know that, for years, dodgy private providers have been at the centre of exposes and inquiries that have revealed widespread practices of neglecting students for the sake of profits. A 2015 Senate inquiry revealed a litany of exploitative practices by private VET providers, including the misleading of students on the likely debt to be incurred, false promises about equipment and facilities and deceptive about employment and qualification opportunities. In the 2018 Braithwaite review, the Consumer Action Law Centre described examples of providers misleading students on course costs, immigration outcomes and likely salaries following qualifications. They call for ASQA to prioritise the scrutiny and investigation of misleading and deceptive conduct by private VET providers. Meanwhile, the Australian Dental Association said it has particularly been RTOs operating on a for-profit model which have deliberately targeted disadvantaged people, luring their participation in courses by offering free tablets or laptops without providing the quality teaching that students expect in return.

Over the years, review after review has uncovered and confirmed extensive practices of private vocational providers neglecting and deceiving students—especially international students—all for the sake of making a buck and a profit. After years of failing regulation, it is welcome to see this bill take steps to prevent and deter the unethical behaviour of dodgy RTOs, including strengthening penalty frameworks for misleading and deceptive conduct and by more closely regulating RTOs at the point of and shortly after registration, which recent reviews have recommended are critical times for intervention.

While these are important steps to stop the unethical conduct of dodgy RTOs, there is really nothing in this bill or in the government's reform agenda to properly address some of the fundamental problems with the vocational training sector. Commercial interests have for so long trumped quality in education and training, and the competitive market model really has utterly failed. We need big and bold changes to bring vocational education and training back into public hands, and we need to supercharge our TAFEs with significant increases in funding, and ensure that staff are properly resourced and supported. Funding cuts by state and federal governments and Labor's contestable funding model have privatised and decimated our public TAFE system. The coalition cut over $3 billion from TAFE funding from 2013 to 2021, forcing many TAFEs to close or significantly downsize. In New South Wales alone, a whopping 12 entire TAFE campuses have been closed and sold off by the government since 2012, while many others have been massively hollowed out.

In a 2020 Australian Education Union survey of TAFE staff, 81 per cent of the respondents said the team budget had decreased over the previous three years, and 68 per cent of respondents said the institution had stopped providing courses over the three years prior, with the most common reason being lack of funding. The decline of TAFEs has continued in years since, and the Labor government must act urgently to reverse these trends and undo that damage that has been caused over so many years. A publicly owned and fully funded TAFE system is the only appropriate model to ensure an accessible and high-quality education system. Government funding should not be going to private providers, where again and again we've seen the quality of education fall by the wayside at the expense of making profit. TAFEs should be the provider of choice and the priority for government funding.

We must also shift away from the competitive and contestable funding models, which has seen worse outcomes for students and staff and has been a distraction for providers from the key task of providing high-quality education and training. The government should be guaranteeing significant long-term funding for TAFEs, allowing them to attract and retain staff and to provide students with the best learning environment. Everyone deserves access to high-quality education, no matter their bank balance or their background, and, while some recent Labor government announcements of more fee-free TAFE places are very welcome, what is needed is to make TAFE and uni free for all. Free higher education has the potential to transform our society, giving all people the opportunity for world-class education and training and ensuring that no-one is saddled with a death sentence in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis—or ever, in fact.

The government needs to get their priorities right. Instead of spending half a trillion dollars on stage 3 tax cuts, which finally has produced a bit, and building dirty war machines, it could make TAFE and uni free many times over and fund so many other essential services at a fraction of the cost. Making TAFE free would open up education opportunities for many who are currently locked out. The recent Universities Accord report found that students from low SES backgrounds and First Nations students are more likely than those from high SES backgrounds to enter university after first undertaking vocational education and training. If Labor is really serious about increasing participation in higher education, then it should remove all financial barriers to study and training entirely and make TAFE and uni free for all.

Improving working conditions in the vocational education and training sector must also be a priority. It is unacceptable that so many TAFE staff are in precarious and insecure work and their wages are not at all keeping up with the cost of living. An Australian Education Union survey of TAFE staff found that around 90 per cent of respondents did not have adequate technology, equipment and resources to even deliver the training. Less than a third of the respondents expected to spend their career working in TAFE, and more than three quarters said they had considered leaving the sector in the last three years, with high workload, excessive hours and a lack of support for staff amongst the most common reasons for wanting to leave. Increasing funding to TAFE goes hand in hand with attracting and retaining staff, of course, and ensuring that staff are properly resourced and have fair pay and working conditions. The government should also set clear and measurable targets for higher rates of secure work across the higher education and training sector and work with the staff and unions to link Commonwealth funding to reductions in the rate of insecure and precarious work. TAFE staff work incredibly hard and do an excellent job under very challenging conditions. They are the beating heart of our TAFE system, and the government must do more to ensure they are valued and respected for the incredible work that they do.

I just want to say a few things about international students. As we have seen in review after review, international students suffer the worst of exploitation by dodgy RTOs. It is welcome that this bill will help improve this, but there is so much more the government should be doing to support international students and trainees in Australia. International students make incredible contributions to our society yet are the last to be provided with government support and access to essential services, and the first to be scapegoated and blamed for the government's failures, from housing to unemployment. Not only do many international students struggle to afford the basics amidst this cost-of-living and housing crisis, but they experience significant racism and marginalisation across society. We owe so much more to international students, whose perspectives enrich our cultures and make our streets vibrant and diverse and whose skills and ingenuity help to solve the country's most pressing challenges. We must do better to embrace their contributions and properly support them, and this starts by providing them with the best learning conditions but extends to improving access to essential services, from housing and transport to health and income. And we must work to ensure that our institutions and policies are actively antiracist.

The Greens support this bill as a step to improve integrity and quality in vocational education and training, but it really does nothing to reverse the years of damage inflicted by underfunding and privatisation of our public TAFEs. TAFEs should be the first priority—and I cannot say this often enough—for all federal funding for vocational education and training, and I remain staunch on the view that TAFEs should be the vocational education provider of choice. That means fixing the whole system by moving away from the market model governments have made it, reversing privatisation and contestability and investing in public provision. The Greens will continue to push for these changes that are needed to restore public funding to TAFEs as the provider of choice, ensuring access to high-quality training and education for all students and an excellent working environment for all staff.

Jess Walsh (Victoria, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Today I rise to speak on the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Amendment (Strengthening Quality and Integrity in Vocational Education and Training No. 1) Bill 2024, which will strengthen our vocational education and training sector. It's a sector that helps form the backbone of our economy and plays a pivotal role in shaping Australia's future. Labor's introduction of fee-free TAFE has been a game changer. It's not just about making education more accessible; it's about empowering individuals to pursue their dreams and contribute meaningfully to society. Now we are committed to supporting a high-performing, reputable and trustworthy VET sector to deliver quality training outcomes and meet the country's workforce needs into the future, because a strong VET sector is essential to a strong economy.

This bill is about strengthening and clarifying the powers of the national VET regulator, the Australian Skills Quality Authority, ASQA. It empowers ASQA to take decisive action against corrupt and unethical registered training organisations and applies increases to penalties that ASQA can impose on RTOs for serious breaches of the act. These changes are long overdue, and these changes ensure our VET sector is one that can be trusted and provides those vital skills that Australia needs.

Since introducing fee-free TAFE, 350,000 people have taken up places, with more set to roll out. This isn't just about those numbers; it's about creating pathways to secure work. With $30 billion invested in the National Skills Agreement, we are gearing up to meet the demands of a rapidly evolving economy. We want to nurture a workforce equipped with the skills needed to thrive in the jobs that our country needs, such as carers, early childhood educators, tradies and cyber experts. That's why we're working hard to repair the TAFE system, which was gutted by the coalition. We're fixing the pipeline of skilled workers and mending the massive skills shortages across the country, the worst we've seen in five decades, under the coalition.

When we ensure quality TAFE, we are ensuring a quality workforce. That is why, through this bill, we are focused on improving regulation, because regulation only strengthens our mighty VET sector. Our apprentices and trainees deserve a high-quality VET sector that keeps them safe and sets them up for well-paid, secure work, delivering the skills needed to drive the economy.

I have met some people who have benefited from our free TAFE program and I have heard some amazing stories—stories like that of Emily. Emily is a hardworking Gippsland mum who dreamt of pursuing nursing. But she was held back due to time and money. Thanks to fee-free TAFE, her dream isn't just a hope; it is becoming a reality. And she is not alone. There are countless people like Emily, eager to contribute to their communities but held back by circumstances beyond their control. In my home state of Victoria, institutions like Gippsland TAFE are leading the charge in providing quality education and training. And they're not just building careers; they are building lives and they're building economies. They are creating meaningful, well-paid and secure opportunities in a regional area that really needs those opportunities, because we are committed to supporting all Australians, regardless of their postcode.

Our government's vision for this sector is crystal clear. We are here to create secure jobs for all Australians through a strong, fair and well-regulated VET sector. We are levelling the playing field and ensuring that everyone has a fair shot at building a successful career. Whether you missed out on studying straight out of school or you have been busy with caring responsibilities, fee-free TAFE is here to open doors and create opportunities. With this bill, we are ensuring vocational education is delivered by reputable and committed providers. It is getting these incredible people, who I've had the privilege of meeting out in Gippsland, back to work when we need them the most. Labor is delivering significant and enduring reforms that improve the lives of all Australians.

So this bill is not just about strengthening the quality and integrity of the VET sector; it is also about investing in our people. It is about investing in our industries, investing in our regions and investing in our nation's future. So let's build a VET sector that we can trust, a sector that empowers individuals, fuels growth and paves the way for a stronger Australia.

Matt O'Sullivan (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I rise today to speak on the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Amendment (Strengthening Quality and Integrity in Vocational Education and Training No. 1) Bill 2024. When in opposition, the now government made a lot of noise about skills and about the training portfolio. But, to date, what we've seen from the government in the time that they've been in government is just a lot of window dressing when it comes to this issue. There is not a lot of substance behind what they're doing, and I seek throughout my contribution here to outline what I mean by that.

First, there was the sham Jobs and Skills Summit; that was in 2022. Then there was a bill that renamed the existing agency, the Jobs and Skills Australia Bill; it didn't do much more than rename that agency. Finally, there was an announcement to flood the market with fee-free TAFE places. And now we have a bill that impacts registered training organisations. But when it comes to actually delivering for Australians—for those who are wanting to get better, more skilled jobs and for those employers across the country who are desperate to find people to work for them that have the requisite skills that they need to be able to fulfil their market and what they're trying to deliver for the Australian economy, indeed for their own businesses—this government is found wanting because it's not delivering. In 2022, there were around 4.5 million VET students. Around 3.4 million were enrolled with private training providers, and around 720,000 were enrolled in TAFEs. Around 490,000 were enrolled with community education providers, and others were enrolled at schools, universities and enterprise providers. Students can be enrolled with multiple provider types. So what does this bill hope to achieve?

The most significant change proposed by the minister for skills is to seek to directly control market entry of the new registered training organisations. This bill introduces a new power that allows the minister, by legislative instrument, to direct the regulator, the Australian Skills Quality Authority, to pause the registration of new RTOs. The coalition support this change, in principle, but we are seeking an amendment, and we hope that amendment will be supported because it adds extra transparency and accountability to the change that this bill is predominantly making. This issue does need to be looked at. The bill also tightens the rules for RTOs in their first two years of operation and makes a number of changes to the way ASQA processes and prioritises the registration of new training organisations. The bill increases the penalty units specified under certain provisions of the current act.

In relation to these changes, the Australian Industry Group remarked on 7 February 2024:

The Australian economy is reliant on a strong, vibrant VET sector to develop the skills required for up to 50% of the jobs in our workplaces.

These skills are best developed from a trusted VET sector, renowned for quality-focussed skills development. For too long, some unscrupulous providers and poor practices have cast a shadow over the sector. In turn, this has damaged its broader reputation, and that of the many quality providers, and has undermined the student experience, including for international students.

Senator Cash in her contribution highlighted the absolute failure of the previous Labor government with their VET FEE-HELP scheme, which saddled students with incredible debt, as well as unscrupulous behaviour by providers, all supported by the previous Labor government's policy. It was unwound and fixed up by the coalition government when we came in but, sadly, some of those students are still battling with those debts, and the Commonwealth is covering the significant cost of what the Labor Party did when that policy was in place. Throughout the VET sector, we have seen a deterioration of quality, and there needs to be improvement. As someone who has worked across this field prior to coming into parliament, I can attest to it. We have to get our VET sector and our skills and training sectors focused on skills to deliver for jobs that exist and jobs for the future.

We can't just have training for training's sake. Sadly, I think this is still a feature of our system. The government likes to talk about the fee-free TAFE model that it has brought in. I have no issue with TAFE whatsoever. I am a student product of TAFE. I did an apprenticeship as an electronic technician at Midland TAFE in the outer suburbs of Perth, and I received a terrific education there. But what we're seeing with this fee-free TAFE model is a preferencing of TAFE, rather than just allowing the market to decide who should receive funding based on the demand that has been placed on them by employers and by students who are actively selecting courses that they want to do.

The reason that this is an issue is that the government, I think, have got the focus on the wrong metric when it comes to measuring the effectiveness of this program. They are focused on the number of places within the TAFE sector, rather than focusing on the outcomes. The outcome that matters to students and to employers is completion of courses and the number of people who are actually taking up work. That is an important measure because that determines whether or not the training that was received is actually suitable to the employers who want to employ these people. It's absolutely vital that we are not setting up our young people in particular to engage in training courses if they're not actually getting themselves involved in a course with a provider that is going to give them the skills that they need to be productive on day one in the job, when they set out to do it with their new employer. If you want an employer to come back for more trainees and you want an employer to come back for more new graduates, they need to have had the success with others that have come through.

Often, it's the employer that determines the type of course, and this is actually how it should be. The employers in our country should be in the driving seat of what courses are offered, how those courses are delivered and, indeed, I would say, who actually delivers them. In many cases—in probably the majority of cases—the local TAFE can provide that. But there are circumstances where the employer might want to, with a training provider, provide that training so that they can get the bespoke training that they require for their business so that they can fulfil the job requirements that they have. But this government is fixated on fee-free TAFE, which sounds wonderful to the public. Australians love TAFE. It's a good brand, by and large. But employers are desperate for people with the skills that are necessary.

The other issue with this focus on places rather than real outcomes, which is jobs, people getting and taking up employment and indeed being retained in that job—which is the other measure that should be measured—is the fact that people are engaging in courses that aren't leading to employment outcomes. I met recently with the outdoor recreation industry association operating in New South Wales. This crowd looks after outdoor industry type jobs, such as hikers, tour groups that go out into the wilderness, people that take tours up into the ski fields and mountain bike operations, horseriding operations—all of these wonderful tourist operations and recreational activities. They are desperate for people that are skilled in their area that know how to operate in that particular field as managers. You need to have the skills in first aid. You need to have the skills in management and emergency management. All of these sorts of things are required to be able to be proficient in that job. Yet they've told me that they keep hearing of people that are just going and doing units of competency at TAFE in basically recreational type areas. They're going and doing a mountain biking course without completing the full unit that gives them the qualifications that they need to be able to actually work in the job. So, sure, they've got some wonderful skills in how to ride their mountain bike, but they haven't got all of the requirements and skills that are required to be able to maybe lead a tour group that actually pays and is building the economy.

This is the problem. When you just focus on places through this fee-free TAFE model and you're not focused on real outcomes, then you're missing out and we're putting taxpayers' money essentially into people's hobbies. That's not acceptable. Mountain climbing—you can go and do a mountain climbing course at TAFE. That's great, but people should pay for that themselves, frankly. People should pay for that themselves. Why is the taxpayer funding this sort of thing? If it's combined with, as I was saying, the other units of competency that are necessary to be able to get a job, then there's no problem with that. This is the issue. We need to have employer directed, industry directed, training. Employers should be in the driving seat of the courses. We can't just have people fulfilling their frolics in their interests. It has got to be about getting people into jobs that exist and that are real.

The amendment that we're seeking to this bill is important. In the closing moments that I've got, I just want to address it. The amendment here will ensure that the pause that this bill provides for that the minister will be able to put on new enrolments is limited to 12 months. That is an important limitation because we would not want to see this minister or any future minister provided with the unfettered power to be able to manipulate the market in a way by just pausing it indefinitely. It might be the intention to just pause it for a moment, and that's fine. But we should make sure that there are some limitations on the pause that is there. A maximum pause of 12 months is what our amendment is seeking to implement. I would hope that that is something that can be supported.

ITECA said they want to see:

… amendments that strengthen the legislation by putting in place safeguards. These include placing a limit on the amount of time that a ban on new RTOs would be in place. It's also sensible that the government publish the underpinning reason for making such decisions.

So it is absolutely non-controversial to ensure that this happens. It should be something that is supported because it provides the transparency that is necessary and it provides the assurance that there can't be a situation where a minister is using the power of the legislative instrument to just manipulate the market in a way that would prevent new registrations. There are times when industry, who are in the driving seat of the economy, are needing to be in a position where they can seek out the support of a training provider that is maybe uniquely purposed for them. Rather than just having this broadbrush TAFE model that doesn't actually address and deliver the needs specific to industry and specific to employers, we need to have a model that directly deals with them.

The other point I'll make in the remaining 60 seconds that I've got is that there are wonderful opportunities in my home state of Western Australia, where we've got to see the RTOs step up to the plate in terms of training and providing people for the jobs that are coming as a result of AUKUS. There are going to be over 3,000 people who will have new jobs in Western Australia, not far from my home around the Rockingham area in Henderson. There's a wonderful, burgeoning industry that's there in the naval and submarine sectors, and there are jobs that are going to go wanting if we don't have the skills that are required. I want to call on this government, as part of this debate, to step up and to lean on the state government because, frankly, we're not seeing the Western Australian government do anything near what it needs to do in relation to leaning into the opportunities that AUKUS provides, whether that's in housing, in infrastructure or, in this case, in skills.

Tammy Tyrrell (Tasmania, Jacqui Lambie Network) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Amendment (Strengthening Quality and Integrity in Vocational Education and Training No. 1) Bill 2024 is a good attempt to rein in a sector that has, from time to time, proven to be a cowboy industry. I've worked for an RTO and in employment services, but I've also been on the other side, unemployed and looking to RTOs to get back into work. In my 15 years working in employment services, I've witnessed countless long-term unemployed people getting back into work all because of an RTO. I've seen how RTOs help people pick up the skills they need to jump back into work and find their spot in the job world. As someone who was unemployed, an RTO gave me the opportunity to gain more skills and a job where I wanted to be—doing business admin.

Unemployment is deflating, and in Tasmania services to help people bounce back into employment can feel like they're hard to come by. Trust in the RTO system is essential. It gives people the confidence that they can get a skill and get back to work doing a job they want. In my time, I have also seen shonky RTOs that put profits first and people second. From where I stood all those years ago and from where I stand today, this is entirely amoral and undermines the integrity of our VET sector. People go to an RTO for one of two reasons: either they need to go for their apprenticeship or traineeship or they want to get some skills under their belt to get a job of their choice.

In Tassie, RTOs are even more important. They service regional and rural areas that our crippled TAFE system can't reach. Where I'm from on the north-west coast of Tassie, more people are trained through vocational training than through universities. Over eight per cent of people on the north-west coast of Tassie are trained by a VET provider. I have always backed RTOs and said they have a spot in our education system, and, if you've ever talked to me about skills and training, you know that I sing the praises of RTOs a lot. RTOs give people like me, people who didn't go to university, an opportunity to fit into the workforce, and when we talk about vocational education—

Debate interrupted.