Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
2:53 pm
My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, does the total cost of Labor's Powering Australia plan include the decommissioning of turbines, solar panels and batteries at the end of their life?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Well, well, well—we start as we finish, on costings.
Michaelia Cash WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
Your costings.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Yes, don't worry. You can only ask about our costings, because you have none. Honestly! In the week that we've had, your question is about costings of the energy transition—interesting. Our costings—
Sue Lines President
Order! Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator Hughes?
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
We're 25 per cent through the response, and it's a yes or no question.
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
We're 25 per cent—just on the maths side of things—through the response time, and it's a yes or no question.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Hughes. The minister is being relevant. I will continue to listen carefully.
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
No, she's not; she's talking about us.
Sue Lines President
Senator Hughes! I remind you once again that, when you raise a point of order with me, it is not a debate. I've ruled. Whether you agree or not, you don't continue in a debate with me.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
On the cost issue, we look forward to the costs when they come, when you've worked out your big announcement—the big announcement that Mr Dutton accidentally made in a newspaper interview. We heard about it. We read about it. Where did that 2030 target go? Whoops! Oh, it's just gone! And now we know Senator Canavan is going to get rid of the 2050 target.
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
Point of order on relevance. We're now 50 per cent through the answer. The question was very clearly asking if their plan includes the cost of decommissioning. It's a yes or a no, and we've gone nowhere near it.
Sue Lines President
Senator Hughes, please resume your seat. I will draw the minister back to the question, but, when you rise on a point of order, there is no need to repeat the question.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
As I said in an answer earlier in the week, we have a budgeted plan that's backed by the AEMO Integrated System Plan, which looked at the total cost out to 2050 of the generation, storage and transmission of renewable energy, and the figure that's being applied to that by AEMO under the release of the new ISP today is $122 billion. In this budget we are investing an extra $22.5 billion over the next decade to help make Australia a renewable energy superpower, including $3.2 billion for ARENA, $1.7 billion for the Future Made in Australia Innovation Fund, $6.7 billion for hydrogen production tax credits and $1.3 billion for Hydrogen Headstart, building on the $2 billion from our last budget. The capacity investment scheme— (Time expired)
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
2:57 pm
I'm not sure how hydrogen impacts the cost of decommissioning turbines and solar panels at the end of their life, but we live in hope. How many wind turbines, solar panels and batteries installed today as part of Labor's Powering Australia plan will reach the end of their lifespan by 2050 and require replacement?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I thank Senator Hughes for the question. I would ask: How many nuclear reactors are going to be required, and what is the percentage of nuclear energy on the grid? What is it? We heard there are lots of them. How many? You couldn't answer.
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
Point of order on relevance. It's not a question about anything other than the replacement by 2050. I'll give you a tip: it's 100 per cent.
Sue Lines President
Senator Hughes, resume your seat. Senator Hughes, you rose on a point of order. I reminded you the last time you rose on a point of order not to go beyond the point of order, and you did it again. I will draw the minister to your question.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I guess it is a reasonable thing, when you release a nuclear reactor plan, to be able to say how many nuclear reactors you're going to need. What we saw on Sunday is that not only have seven sites been identified but on those sites they could have multiple reactors. Maybe you could have four. Maybe you could have five. Who knows? You don't know yet.
Honourable senators interjecting—
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
Point of order on relevance.
Sue Lines President
Senator Hughes, I haven't called you. The reason I haven't called you is that I am waiting for order in the chamber, and then I'll call you. Senator Hughes.
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
The question did not use the word nuclear, yet the minister's barely said anything but.
Sue Lines President
Thank you, Senator Hughes. I will remind the minister of your question.
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
We back renewables. We back solar. We back wind. We back the turbines. We back the panels. And we will continue to, and we will need firming fuel. What we won't do is come out with a half-baked plan. It's not even half-baked. It's a miniscule-baked plan that delivers no idea on cost, size, or when it would actually deliver the energy or anything else. (Time expired)
Hollie Hughes NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
3:00 pm
Minister, is the government deliberately ignoring the costs associated with replacing ageing renewables to make its uncosted energy plan more palatable for voters. If not, why can't you provide an answer?
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
Our plan is costed. It's clear in the budget paper. And—
Unidentified interjection - Hansard doesn't record who said this
Opposition Senators:
Opposition senators interjecting—
Katy Gallagher ACT, Australian Labor Party, Minister for the Public Service
I know you can't stand it, because you don't have the detail and you want to divide. But let me ask a question just as I finish. How much do you think it would cost to decommission a nuclear reactor? I don't know. Is that included in your plan? Oh, no, because you haven't got any costs. And where would you put the waste? And is it a coke can? I don't think it's a Coke can. Does anyone think it's a Coke can? Nobody thinks it's a Coke can. It's a lot of Coke cans, really, isn't it? So how much does it cost to decommission a nuclear reactor? You can't answer because you don't know how much a nuclear reactor— (Time expired)
Penny Wong SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Foreign Affairs
President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.