Barnaby Joyce (Queensland, National Party, Shadow Minister for Finance and Debt Reduction) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Employment Participation and Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Government Service Delivery (Senator Arbib) to questions without notice asked by Senator Cormann and Birmingham today, relating to the Home Insulation Program.

It is amazing to hear Senator Arbib come in here and talk about our misunderstanding his role. At least he is admitting to actually having a role. And what is this role? This role was part of one of the greatest debacles in modern political history that is going to cost $100 million to fix up. This epitomises Labor Party management. This epitomises Labor Party risk. This epitomises the Labor Party and their whole rhetorical flourish.

Yesterday we saw our Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, wandering down to the front with his notebook in hand. He was going to take notes; he was going to fix it all up. I noticed that there did not seem to be any other notes in the notebook—it seemed to be a new notebook. It was a new notebook specially designed for the occasion—a new notebook with probably a new pen with a whole new approach. There was nothing written in that notebook, so I imagine that to that point in time he had not really come across a problem that needed fixing.

So now we have Mr Rudd and his new notebook wandering down to earnestly talk to the ceiling insulation people. Maybe he would like to talk to the families that have faced the tragedy of the deaths that have been brought about by this badly administered program, this ceiling insulation program. Maybe he would like to talk to the people who wondered today whether their roof was a death trap. Maybe he would like to talk today about all the shonky operators who have been ripping off the Australian taxpayer with all their shonky deals in this completely shonky outfit. Maybe he would like to write in his little notebook about how even today we are finding advertisements going out for the installation of ceiling batts. Maybe he would like to talk today about the people who are willing to backdate jobs so they can still get in on the act?

Senator Arbib said he had realised there were a few reports and that he had not been across them all: ‘I knew there were reports and we had meetings but I can’t tell you exactly what they were about. I can’t tell you exactly my role in them. I think you’ve misunderstood my role. I think you’ve misunderstood exactly what the Labor Party are up to. I think the whole of the Australian people are at fault because they misunderstand the Labor Party and exactly what they have been trying to do.’ It was the case that the Labor Party decided on it, in a fit of inspiration, and then they put out this program fast—and that is on their admission. That is the admission of the finance minister, Mr Lindsay Tanner, who said, ‘We didn’t have time to dot the i’s and cross the t’s. We had to get it out there.’ They did not have time to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.

So apart from the cost, the $2.45 billion that they were spending on it, what else has that admission cost us? We are seeing right now that the upfront cost of that admission is $100 million, so a $100 million statement by Mr Tanner or $100 million worth of bad management by Senator Arbib. What could that $100 million have done if they had actually managed it, if they had been diligent, if they had been decisive? If they had actually done their homework we could be using that $100 million for so many other things in our nation. We could be using it for health, we could be using it for education and we could be using it for defence but we are using it to fix up their stuff-up. That is what we have to use that $100 million for, to fix that mistake, and that is apart from the fact that there are four people dead, there have been over 100 house fires and there is the electrification of roofs. All this personifies the Labor Party.

The Republicans have their elephant, the Democrats have their donkey and the Australian Labor Party have the ceiling insulation program. That personifies exactly who they are, exactly how they operate and how shoddy and hopeless they are as an organisation. The notebook, the earnest look on the face and the strolling down to the front—it is all a rhetorical flourish but they lack the detail and they lack the capacity to bring forward an outcome. I would like Mr Rudd to table that notebook. It would be fascinating to see whether it even still exists. Does that notebook still exist? Is it really there? Whereabouts is that little prop? Let us see if Mr Rudd can table that little prop, that brand-new notebook. It is another form of deception of the Australian people in that it says that they care and that they are actually going to do something about it. Well, he stuffed it up and has got to fix it up. (Time expired)

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It has been rather interesting that we have had this very quiet question time when Senator Joyce does not say boo to a goose and then all of a sudden, when it comes to taking note of answers, we get this feigned outrage. All of a sudden he is very troubled and worried and has a commentary to give. I do not know what year you went to NIDA, Senator Joyce, and I do not know whether you passed but there you were feigning outrage after a whole hour of silence at question time.

Over the last months and months we have been criticised by those opposite for attempting to do the right thing by Australian workers. The insulation program, as we all know, was a part of a complete set of measures that responded to the global financial crisis. It has been disappointing that in some places the insulation program has not met the benchmark that we expected. It has been disappointing that there have been operators who have been prepared to break the rules.

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Alan Ferguson (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Order! Senator McLucas has the right to be heard in silence.

Jan McLucas (Queensland, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

When I was contacted, as many of us on this side were and I certainly hope those on the other side were, by the very large number of installers with concerns, those who by and large were doing the right thing, we were able to take their concerns through to the department, through the hotline, and they were acted on.

Minister Garrett and Minister Arbib have been on the job, ensuring that any concerns brought to their attention have been dealt with. In fact, I think that the recent announcement of support for those in the insulation industry is a sensible response to what I acknowledge is a difficult situation. The $41.2 million insulation worker adjustment package will include a $10 million insulation workers adjustment fund to help workers and firms through the transition period. It will be allocated on the recommendation of a team of existing local employment coordinators and new dedicated insulation employment coordinators. The fund will support firms to retain their workforces in work or training activities or to support workers directly. There will be $1.5 million allocated for up to 25 dedicated insulation employment coordinators, funded from the jobs fund. These new positions will assist displaced insulation workers to find alternative jobs with other employers and other industries. This assistance will complement and draw on existing support provided through local employment coordinators and the resources of the Job Services Australia network. The insulation employment coordinators will have access to the $10m insulation workers adjustment fund to assist workers transitioning to alternative jobs or training. Five million dollars has been allocated for 1,000 structural adjustment places to help retrain insulation workers in alternative industries announced today. There will be $24.7 million allocated for 6,000 training places that have already been announced, to assist insulation workers—2,000 each from the Apprenticeship Access places; the language literacy and numeracy program; and the structural adjustment program.

Those opposite have been critical of our response to the global financial crisis from the beginning. If it is such a disaster, why is Australia one of only two OECD countries which have not gone into recession? We are working hard to ensure that elements of the insulation program that have not been quite up to the mark—and we acknowledge that—are now being addressed. We have all acknowledged—and this is nothing amazing—that there have been difficulties. What we have done, and what your side has not acknowledged, is see that every time there has been a problem there has been an appropriate response. We are ensuring that jobs are protected for as long as they can be into the future.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Special Minister of State and Scrutiny of Government Waste) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Heaven help us if that is getting on with the job or up to the job. You must be terribly proud, Senator McLucas, that four people have died from this program. You must be terribly proud that 93 house fires have been linked. You must be very proud that 1,000 homes may have electrified roofs.

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, on a point of order: that was a deeply offensive remark and I ask that it be withdrawn. His assertion implied that senators on this side, including Senator McLucas, would be proud of people dying. It is deeply offensive, it is false and I ask that it be withdrawn.

Michael Ronaldson (Victoria, Liberal Party, Shadow Special Minister of State and Scrutiny of Government Waste) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I withdraw it on the basis that it was a commentary, not a comment directed at Senator McLucas. But let us make sure the public record is absolutely clear. You came into this place and you have defended a program, and I have said to you that four people have died as a result of it. I have said to you that 98 house fires have been linked to it. I have said to you that 1,000 homes are electrified. I put to you that another 200,000 are at risk. If you are proud of that, I would be very surprised. And that is my point, Senator McLucas. There is nothing to be proud of. That is the point I was making.

The Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for Government Service Delivery, Senator Arbib, and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts, Mr Garrett, are apparently on the job. I want to take the chamber back to the questions today from Senator Birmingham to Minister Arbib. They were two absolutely fundamental key questions, neither of which was responded to, and there is a very good reason for that. The first question was:

Did any departmental officials ever advise ... the minister or his staff that the starting date of the Home Insulation Program should be delayed?

That is a very simple question, to which there was no response. The second question was:

Given the minister’s statements yesterday and on Tuesday that his role at these regular meetings with officials was ‘to ensure the rollout was proceeding smoothly and on time ...

The minister stood up after question time today and conveniently dropped the words ‘on time’. Mr Deputy President, I will tell you why you have not had a response to these questions. It is because this does not stop at Minister Arbib and Minister Garrett. This goes right to the top. I thought the comments of Dean Mighell today on Melbourne radio station 3AW were most instructive. He said: ‘But it was not well thought out. It is part of the problem of style of government.’ And it is the style of this government to rush in and try to address a problem by the expenditure of money. It is about doing things such as the NBN—$43 billion—without an iota of a business plan. This is a government that has been described by my colleagues today as ‘blah, blah, blah’. Yesterday, this blah, blah, blah Prime Minister was at it outside with the installers. He said, ‘We are just having a yak.’ The expression ‘yak’ is described in the dictionary as ‘empty conversation’. This is empty conversation. This is all talk, no action. This is blah, blah, blah—empty, empty, empty conversation. The dictionary says the colloquial expression of yak is, ‘To talk or chatter, especially pointlessly and continuously.’ So we do have blah, blah, blah.

The reason Minister Arbib refused to answer Senator Birmingham’s quite clear and deliberate questions is that he knows the Prime Minister is in this up to his ears. He knows that the Prime Minister told Minister Arbib that he was to roll this out, irrespective of what advice he was given. That is the only thing you can take from the minister’s refusal to answer the very simple question, ‘Did any departmental officials ever advise the minister or his staff that the starting date of the Home Insulation Program should be delayed?’ Why would he not answer that question? It is because the answer is yes. We know what his role is, because he told us. It was to ensure the rollout was proceeding smoothly and on time. This minister knew what the advice was. This minister knew that Minter Ellison had addressed a number of issues and therefore they set a three-month delay. (Time expired)

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It is very interesting to follow Senator Ronaldson. Most times I do not. I might have to request to follow him more often, because he is extraordinarily amusing in the way he talks—

Opposition Senators:

Opposition senators interjecting—

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I tell you we are very serious about it. We have acted on these concerns and the issues of safety. What we have been given today is somebody who would rather make fun and talk about the definition of ‘yak’ in the dictionary. That is what we have got with him waving his hands around and trying to make slurs against individual senators on this side of the chamber. I am not sure whether he withdrew or not in the end.

Alan Ferguson (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

He did withdraw.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

However, this government takes the issue of safety very seriously. That is why the minister has acted to boost safety for households and for workers who undertake the installation of these programs. The $41.2 million Insulation Worker Adjustment package will help workers and firms through this transition period. The package offers support to retain people in their current job until the Renewable Energy Bonus program begins and assistance to find alternative jobs or a relevant training place where employment opportunities are not available. The $41.2 million Insulation Worker Adjustment package comprises a $10 million Insulation Workers Adjustment Fund to help workers and firms through the transition period, $1.5 million to fund up to 25 dedicated insulation employment coordinators to assist displaced insulation workers to find alternative jobs, $5 million for an additional 1,000 Structural Adjustment Places to help retrain insulation workers in alternative industries and $24.7 million in already announced funding to support 6,000 already announced training places to assist insulation workers. These places are divided between 2,000 Structural Adjustment Places, taking the total to 3,000 places—

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Mr Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Cormann is so rude.

Mathias Cormann (WA, Liberal Party, Shadow Minister for Employment Participation, Apprenticeships and Training) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Senator Cormann interjecting—

Penny Wong (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Climate Change and Water) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I am used to it, Senator, but some other senators find it more distracting than those of us who are used to you interjecting constantly. It is simply rude and contrary to standing orders.

Alan Ferguson (SA, Deputy-President) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

On the point of order: I am listening very carefully. There have been various degrees of interjection. I thought that this time it was much quieter. Senator Brown, please continue.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

There are also 2,000 Language, Literacy and Numeracy Program places and 2,000 Apprenticeships Access Program places, which provide prevocational training to workers seeking to enter an apprenticeship. These and other measures guarantee them access to retraining, support and help in developing a tailored employment pathway plan to find another job as quickly as possible. They will be eligible for one of the 7,000 training places available for redundant insulation workers.

This strong commitment is in stark contrast to what is offered by the opposition. The Leader of the Opposition, in a doorstop, has said he does not believe in training; he is not interested in training. Mr Abbott said:

I think that training programmes for people who have been thrown out of work are of limited usefulness; people need jobs, that’s what they need.

Julian McGauran (Victoria, National Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

What’s wrong with that?

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

That flies in the face of everything that every stakeholder in the insulation industry has said about the importance of training in the sector. That is why. Training is vital for workers and businesses who want to participate in the new scheme and for getting unskilled workers into new jobs. The Prime Minister is on record about working our way through the implementation of inspections and the rectification of work which is necessary. He has also indicated support for the firms and workers. We accept responsibility for the problems which have arisen, and of course that means—

Cory Bernardi (SA, Liberal Party, Shadow Parliamentary Secretary Assisting the Leader of the Opposition) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

None of your ministers have.

Carol Brown (Tasmania, Australian Labor Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government has accepted the responsibility for the problems that have arisen, and we have put in place measures— (Time expired)

Judith Troeth (Victoria, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I also rise to take note of answers given by Senator Arbib, the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Government Service Delivery, to questions asked by Senators Cormann and Birmingham. I thank Senator Carol Brown for her remarks, but she seems to miss the point. Why would the job training and help programs be necessary if the original program had worked? This was a government program set forth in excruciating detail, with apparently umpteen safeguards and reasons why it would work. Why didn’t it work? The opposition and I call for the minister’s sacking or resignation as the only honourable course left.

The Prime Minister said today, in a couple of places, that he is ultimately responsible for the failure of this program. As is usual with the Prime Minister, these words are very hollow and they are very different from the reality that, unfortunately, everybody else can see. The Prime Minister has not taken the responsibility to sack this incompetent minister. The Prime Minister has not taken responsibility for the deaths of the four victims of this program and apologised to their families. He has not taken responsibility for the hundreds of thousands who are at risk in their homes and apologised to them. He did not even have the guts to stand up in the parliament during the censure motion earlier this week and defend his minister, defend his program or defend himself.

Now we see him making the token effort to wander out into the front courtyard of this place and give the appearance of listening. We also saw him calling in the troops and circling the wagons this morning in a special caucus briefing. Reportedly the Prime Minister advised caucus that they were all in it together. Well, he and Minister Garrett are the people who have lumped the entire Labor Party government in this together, including senators like Senator Carol Brown, who has to stand up in all good faith and defend him. I remind the Prime Minister that he is not a victim in this, even though his ego may be bruised; he and his ministers are, in fact, the perpetrators.

I remind the Senate that there are 24,000 homes with unsafe or substandard installations, 160,000 installations that did not meet product standards, 80,000 installations that did not meet safety standards, 1,000 electrified homes—how would you like that?—and that there have been 93 house fires and the four tragic deaths of the young men. And yet the Prime Minister has the gall to call Mr Garrett a first-class minister and a very effective minister. Those endorsements came within the last week. This is despite the fact that the minister received over 21 individual warnings over safety and the reports of the four deaths.

Despite the minister’s officials receiving a Minter Ellison report exposing deep concerns in April last year, and a further risk register from Minter Ellison with a clear warning to delay the program for three months to correct the problems, he claims he did not know anything about it until 11 days ago. The Prime Minister’s own officials were warned, in February 2009, but he claims that he did not know anything about that either—a very convenient lapse in ministerial procedure across two departments! This is a ridiculous farce being perpetrated by the Prime Minister and the minister for the environment.

The facts are that as early as 9 March last year the minister was warned in writing by the National Electrical and Communications Association that the program was a disaster waiting to happen. In late April last year he was warned by territory and state ministers that this program was a disaster waiting to happen and that if it went ahead in that form there would be serious risk to property and life. On 14 October last year, we had the first death—and it goes on and on and on. The minister received warnings from the Master Electricians association, the ACTU, the New South Wales minister and Labor government ministers but he finally acted only in February.

Now, all of this was entirely preventable, yet the minister took no action to reduce the risks. In fact, he bragged about how wonderfully successful the program was. It beggars belief that both of these men were unaware of at least some of these warnings. So why did the program proceed? Why did the minister not demand further information before authorising it and how is it possible for the minister to be so callous? This minister has comprehensively failed to undertake the due diligence demanded or to heed the warnings. In either case, the result must be the same, because failure to do so is grounds for his termination.

Question agreed to.