Don Farrell (SA, Australian Labor Party, Minister for Trade and Tourism) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

The government continues to reiterate its view that it cannot agree with the assertions made in this motion. We do, however, acknowledge the interest in the chamber in reforming the NDIS to get it back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians. I also acknowledge the recent commitment by the Leader of the Opposition to work together with the government to this end.

On 7 February 2024 the government tabled the final report of the Independent Review into the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which was publicly released in December 2023. In producing this report the independent NDIS review panel travelled to every state and territory, including regional and remote communities. It heard directly from more than 10,000 Australians, worked with disability organisations to reach out and listen to more than 1,000 people with disability and their families, recorded more than 2,000 personal stories and received almost 4,000 submissions. The review delivered 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to respond to the terms of reference.

In delivering its recommendations the review provided exhaustive analysis and proposals to improve the operation, effectiveness and sustainability of the NDIS. The independent NDIS review panel has said its reforms can improve the scheme and meet National Cabinet's annual growth targets of no more than eight per cent growth by 1 July 2026. Discussions have continued with senators across this chamber as well as with members in the other place to address questions about the government's NDIS reform agenda, and it is pursuing that together with the disability community. We look forward to working with senators in this place to get the NDIS back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians.

In relation to the order being discussed, the government has previously outlined that it has claimed public interest immunity over the requested documents, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth, the states and the territories. The Minister representing the Treasurer has already tabled key documents for the benefit of the Senate in addition to the aforementioned review.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I move:

That the Senate take note of the explanation.

Here we go again. At the beginning of every Senate week, the Senate requests of this government, of this Minister for the NDIS, the release of information about the impact of their so-called Financial Sustainability Framework. The Labor government continues to refuse to release the documents that relate to the impact of its commitment to limit spending on the NDIS and establish a growth target for the scheme of no more than eight per cent by 1 July 2026. This decision was made more than a year ago, before the last budget, yet still the community have no clear idea or commitment from the government of where the cuts in the NDIS are coming from.

This government have made a deal with the states and territories behind closed doors. They have refused to release the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework. Now they have developed their new NDIS legislation, whose goal must be to reach their eight per cent growth cap, and that legislation too has been made behind closed doors with disability advocates made to sign non-disclosure agreements—all of this uncertainty, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. Labor: cutting the supports of disabled people and their families.

In their last budget, they ripped $74 billion out of the NDIS. Disabled people and our families tonight have a knot of fear and anxiety as we wait to hear how much further Labor will go to balance their budget on the backs of disabled people. This government have reduced disabled people and our families down to numbers on a Treasury spreadsheet. To them, we are now little more than a financial burden to be reduced so that they can carry on giving subsidies to fossil fuel corporations and buying nuclear submarines. Imagine being so out of touch, so uncaring, that you decide to cut the supports of disabled people and their families, forcing them to choose between food or power or rent or disability supports, in order to continue spending money on nuclear submarines.

We know that removing $74 billion from the NDIS will have catastrophic impacts on disabled people, and we now know that this government have taken every step possible to cover up the implications of that decision, including paying thousands of dollars to polling companies to help them work out a message to enable them to sell these changes to the disability community, while eliciting a degree of qualified tolerance for their otherwise unpalatable changes that disabled people have identified as those which would cause us harm. They have tried everything to achieve their political goal of being able to spend more money on US submarines than disabled people, who are trying to get a fair go.

This Labor government are prioritising secrecy, they are passing the buck and they are actively choosing to make changes to the NDIS that will leave disabled people behind in a cost-of-living crisis. The Greens see what Labor is doing. The Greens and the disability community will not let them get away with it. You will not balance your budget on the backs of disabled people, and tonight you will not be allowed to crow about your surplus when so many are struggling to keep their heads above water.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I too rise to take note yet again—I think this is probably about the 10th time that we have risen to take note of the government's abject failure in providing any transparency to this place on something as important as the NDIS funding. On the fig leaf of reason for the IPP is that it will prejudice relationships with states and territories—well, der! Of course it will, because the minister just mentioned it. The states and territories have even said that what you're putting forward in this legislation does not reflect the agreement that you had with the states and territories last year, so it will only prejudice state and territory relations because of your own incompetence and lack of transparency. So here we go again with another demonstration of the abject failure and incompetency of this government to manage not just this scheme but every single aspect of government that you have turned your hand to so far.

This motion was agreed to in September last year, and I commend Senator Steele-John for this motion. It may surprise some in the gallery and elsewhere to know that this is one of the things that we do agree on very on much—the government's handling of and lack of transparency on this matter. The only thing I don't agree with Senator Steele-John on is the need for nuclear submarines, but, apart from that, we're on a unity ticket in relation to what he said.

Tonight Labor is facing its biggest test in relation to the NDIS. For two years they've conducted a review that wasn't necessary, because the problems and solutions were already very clear. They've just shown that they do not have the ability to do it.

The minister was just talking about 'getting the NDIS back on track'—a catchy name for the legislation! This is one of the worst of pieces of draft legislation I think I have ever seen. It was very clear that, of the package of recommendations in the report that they commissioned—which took two years and included some 26 recommendations and 139 subrecommendations—this deals with just four, in part. So we're not even getting the comprehensive actions that their own report requires. They're putting all of the hard decisions out until past the next election. You could actually call this saving-Bill-Shorten legislation.

Of course, we will work with the government in good faith on this, and we will certainly be talking to our friends the Greens in relation to this. I'm not the shadow minister, but I'm sure we will be.

Let's have a look at this legislation. In fact, first, let's have a look at their lack of transparency. As minister, I introduced a monthly report. The first thing they did was get rid of the monthly report. They now refuse, even at estimates, to answer additional estimates questions in relation to additional estimate variations. They did that at the last estimates.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

It's probably in their manual.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Exactly. In the manual, yes. I'm sure we'll come to the detail of this manual.

At the last estimates, we saw the farce. The second-quarter report was well overdue. The CEO had a copy on a laptop; the minister in this building had a copy, but they didn't want to release it. And guess what? They released it the very next morning so that it could not be looked at in detail in terms of the Senate. They're doing the same thing again. The 42 days are up. The ministers all have it, but I bet you anything that they will not release the third-quarter report until after the next estimates. Shame on them.

In the minute that I've got left, let me address this legislation. As I said, it's one of the worst pieces of legislation I have seen, and it's going to attempt to give the minister God powers that we would never, in a million years, have even thought to request on behalf of the minister. It is putting far too much into delegated legislation, of which there is no detail yet. 'Trust us. Trust Bill Shorten. Trust the Labor Party. We'll fill it all in later, and I'll use this power wisely.' Well, you haven't so far, not for two years. Not only that; it continues the complete lack of transparency.

Senator Steele-John asked this chamber how much they're going to cut from participant plans. Well, according to the budget, it's $19 billion, Senator Steele-John, over the forward estimates.

Jordon Steele-John (WA, Australian Greens) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

Yes.

Linda Reynolds (WA, Liberal Party) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

And when you have a look at this legislation, that is what this is designed to do: make bad decisions—we're not quite sure how but maybe on the basis of APTOS, which it was never designed to do—while they, over the next five years, say, 'We might suddenly start having a talk to states and territories about how we will do these assessments in the future.' States and territories haven't agreed to it because it's going to cost them billions. They're not going to do it because they don't have the money and they don't have the systems to take on these services. Shame on you.

Hollie Hughes (NSW, Liberal Party, Shadow Assistant Minister for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) Share this | Link to this | Hansard source

I commend Senator Steele-John for putting forward this motion. It's NDIS Tuesday. Normally, it's NDIS Monday, but, of course, it's budget week, so it's NDIS Tuesday. For those that play along at home, transmission Tuesday is also coming up, so there are a few things on today.

Yesterday I went to my son's school. He attends a special school. We had a very, very early morning Mother's Day breakfast. I somehow feel early morning breakfast on Mother's Day is an anathema! But, anyway, there we were, in the morning. I looked around at this beautiful school and these beautiful kids, and every single one of those kids is going to need lifelong supports. They don't have a speech delay. They don't have a minor global developmental delay. They haven't stubbed their toe. These kids have significant disabilities and are going to require supports for the rest of their lives.

As I stood around talking to the other mums who were there, those of us that have got kids a little bit older—we all started our journey before the NDIS, so we remember what it was like when we did have to rely on the states, if there was anything available. I can tell you, in rural and regional New South Wales, that was not the case where we lived at the time. So the NDIS has been an absolutely life-changing scheme for my family and for the families of these kids. It certainly will be for younger kids coming through. The government is saying to families that are going to come through on the back of this new legislation, 'Don't worry; there'll be foundational supports. We're going to push you all back into the state system,' when we know that there are no supports in the school system. The school system vacated the field. The states left disability well alone as soon as the NDIS came into play. In fact, in any single allied health community program that they were delivering, they couldn't run away fast enough.

You can't just stand this stuff up again overnight. The problem we've got on top of that is the NDIS price guide, which is just an abomination. This price guide has put the fees so high for NDIS participants—more than if you're on a healthcare card; more than if you're a veteran; more than if on aged care—that the NDIS is the best-paying gig in town. So there's no way someone who's gone into private practice as an occupational therapist or a speech therapist is going back to work for a state funded salary in community health. They're just not, because they can charge NDIS participants at the most ludicrous rate. Do we hear anyone talk about the price guide? Do we hear anyone talk about what the providers are doing in gouging this sector? That is absolutely what is happening.

We don't know where these cuts are going to come from, but I can tell you where you could save a lot of money—by getting rid of that price guide. Let the market decide the price. People would pay what a normal person would pay. When I say 'normal person', I mean someone who walks in off the street—before I am verballed on that—rather than someone who's an NDIS participant.

The point has been made by both of my colleagues here in the Senate that this is in the budget already. It's already in the budget from last year, so we don't know what's coming tonight. There could be another almighty whack tonight, and we don't know what that's going to be. The thing is, the Labor government have an almost golden opportunity, if they want to bring the states back to the table and change the funding arrangement, because aside from Tasmania there are wall-to-wall Labor state governments. They have a sea of red—and look how well the country is going with that! It's going really well for everybody; that cost-of-living crisis is awesome! Wall-to-wall red governments and—

I'm sorry, Senator Farrell, your turn to speak was to actually provide the figures you were asked to provide. So, rather than interjecting on me, provide the documents you've been required to provide by order of this Senate. Stop interjecting over me and do your job.

The people of Australia deserve more than this government. The people on the NDIS deserve more than this government. What they are getting from you is opacity. What they are getting from you is deceit. What they are getting from you is contempt and this behaviour that continues when you have an opportunity. Bill Shorten referred to Senator Reynolds and others, when they were in opposition, as a 'pearl-clutching kabuki theatre', because there was no sustainability issue according to him. He told every disability provider, every participant in this country—the whole sector—'There is no sustainability issue.' This lot don't know what they're talking about.

Day 1, he comes in saying, 'Oh, the NDIS isn't sustainable. Hey, come and help me try and fix it—but we're not going to tell you how.' He is frightening families. He is frightening participants. And we know that the next generation of kids with a disability coming through are going to be hung out to dry by you.

Question agreed to.